Acid Attacks - what do we do?

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mercalia
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Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby mercalia » 15 Jul 2017, 1:46pm

getting a bit worried here in London with the increase of acid attacks. Seems like there is also a Change.org petition to make it hard to buy the stuff thru having police checks or even a license. Not sure this necessary? just dont allow kids to buy it as it is kids who are doing it? maybe have to be older than 25 as is the age for buying booze in many supermarkets. Any way if they dont use acid they could move over to using bleach which would be just as nasty and is easy to buy? or drain cleaner? ( sodium hydroxide crystals I think which is nasty stuff )

Tangled Metal
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby Tangled Metal » 15 Jul 2017, 7:24pm

I.thought the acid attacks were to steal mopeds. If so ride a bicycle not a moped and it's less of a risk.

There's acid in many domestically used products. Restrict it and in bet some diy and supermarket shelves will get emptied. Then they'll just move on to other chemicals.

Be thankful the truly dangerous chemicals are restricted. One uni lab had enough nasties to take out most of northwest England if there was a release. 20 years ago the electronic chemical sensing equipment could detect one part in several billion in the air. It cost a couple of million back then and took over a small room of flashing lights and electronics. I used HF acid for one project too. If the perpetrators got any of that I'd very much worry! Not nice stuff.

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661-Pete
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Jul 2017, 8:18pm

I remember what we learnt at school about corrosive acids - IIRC the chemistry master (cautiously) demonstrated the effect of a drop of nitric acid on his own skin (with the stern warning: don't try this boys!). And there was one incident (not in my class) when a boy accidentally splashed a drop of concentrated hydrochloric acid in his eye. This was long before the days of safety goggles of course. Very quick reactions from the master probably saved his eye from permanent damage. Scary!

On another occasion, when I was a lot younger, I remember my father bringing home a bottle of hydrochloric acid. I don't recall what for - maybe he was getting fed up with the limescale in the toilet bowl and wanted to take drastic action. Anyway, he never got round to it, because the bottle was accidentally dropped on the kitchen floor spilling acid all over the place. I remember it starting to fizz as it ate its way into the floor tiles. Remember the scene in Alien? Not quite as bad as that, but scary enough!

So I don't need any reminders of how dangerous some strong acids are. What perplexes me is how these villains are able to so easily get hold of the stuff. But - it's easy enough to buy any number of corrosive substances - my wife bought a packet of caustic soda crystals from the supermarket a few weeks ago.

Ironic, isn't it? A lot of perfectly legal and relatively harmless drugs can only be bought over the counter by asking for them at a pharmacist - those with a "P" in a box, somewhere on the packaging. This is aside from all the prescription-only medicines of course. But some pretty lethal stuff can just be taken to the checkout. I remember buying rat poison once, at a DIY, and wondering whether it would ring a bell at the checkout. But it didn't.
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tatanab
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby tatanab » 15 Jul 2017, 8:25pm

661-Pete wrote:What perplexes me is how these villains are able to so easily get hold of the stuff. But - it's easy enough to buy any number of corrosive substances - my wife bought a packet of caustic soda crystals from the supermarket a few weeks ago.
Quite right. For simplicity the press has called any corrosive liquid an acid. In the most recent report it is said that bleach was used. As noted by others, it does not seem practical to limit the sale of such normal household items.

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meic
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby meic » 15 Jul 2017, 8:35pm

I have some concentrated phosphoric acid for treating rust (after being diluted). In the past I have had a gallon container of concentrated sulphuric acid for doing car batteries, then there is the not so strong stuff in the kid's chemistry set.
There are genuine uses for these chemicals, as well as the bad ones.
Yma o Hyd

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 15 Jul 2017, 10:14pm

Hi,

Origin...............culture maybe.............

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing
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661-Pete
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Jul 2017, 10:51pm

We might also note that acid throwing occurs in literature too. One of the Sherlock Holmes stories - The Illustrious Client - features such an attack. Also Brighton Rock. Both pretty gory - though in each case it's the villain who gets the acid!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

PH
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby PH » 15 Jul 2017, 11:20pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,

Origin...............culture maybe.............

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing


No
These dreadful acts of violence have nothing at all to do with culture.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby Tangled Metal » 15 Jul 2017, 11:28pm

16 & 15 year olds robbing mopeds. Culture is nothing to do with it.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Jul 2017, 9:39am

Hi,
London now appears to be a hot spot in the world, per capita!
But statistics in the undeveloped world are not very accurate because many crimes with corrosive substance go unreported.

So it might be a increasing weapon of choice in London but not so in rest of world for the same reasons?
A copy cat crime maybe in London?
But a bottle of acid in some countries is 20p.
It is thought that 80% of victims across the world are female..........................
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pete75
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby pete75 » 16 Jul 2017, 9:48am

While lead acid batteries are in common use it's not possible to prevent people getting hold of sulphuric acid. If it's not strong enough for their purposes all they need to do is put it in a pyrex saucepan and evaporate much of the water. Then there's all sorts of corrosive substances used in various forms of drain cleaner.

A high chance of arrest, conviction and punishment is probably the best deterrent.

Vitriol(sulphuric acid) attacks were common in Victorian Britain.

Psamathe
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby Psamathe » 16 Jul 2017, 10:01am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
London now appears to be a hot spot in the world, per capita!
But statistics in the undeveloped world are not very accurate because many crimes with corrosive substance go unreported.

So it might be a increasing weapon of choice in London but not so in rest of world for the same reasons?
.....

Somebody on TV was saying how the weapon has always been there but use has increased partially through excessive stop & search. They were saying that somebody stopped & searched will be caught if they are carrying a knife (something most police officers can recognise); but a bottle of clear liquid and the police don't have the means to accurately test for stop & search (and is carrying it even an offence?). I've no idea if this is a valid aspect, just repeating what this person said in a TV interview.

Ian

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 16 Jul 2017, 12:12pm

Hi,
Don't read to much into what I say next......

Today on BBC news channel They talked briefly about acid attacks.

Presenter (new reader) was non white, the two pictures of victims were non white (IIRC) the expert talking was also non white.

It might have been a coincidence.
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

Freddie
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby Freddie » 16 Jul 2017, 2:19pm

One would think, if it has nothing to do with culture, then it would occur at similar rates (adjusting for population) in Cornwall, Somerset or Lincolnshire for that matter, but it does not.

This is not an equally distributed crime, but one centred around London.

pete75
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Re: Acid Attacks - what do we do?

Postby pete75 » 16 Jul 2017, 4:17pm

Freddie wrote:One would think, if it has nothing to do with culture, then it would occur at similar rates (adjusting for population) in Cornwall, Somerset or Lincolnshire for that matter, but it does not.

This is not an equally distributed crime, but one centred around London.


But London, especially East London, has a higher crime rate all round than the places you mention. Cockneys seem prone to crime and some seem to regard notorious criminals like the Kray twins as heros.