"Smart" motorways?

[Tigerbiten]

I find it almost impossible to put up with delays like this, instead of just accepting there is nothing I can do, I feel like doing what the chap the a film did where he just got out of his car and walked away. Sorry I can't remember the film but I share the sense of frustration.

Michael Dougals in Falling Down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_Down

[661-Pete]

Michael Dougals in Falling Down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_Down

Is that the one where he shoots up Ermintrude the Cow, then causes Dylan the Rabbit to have a heart attack?

[[XAP]Bob]

And then what? Using the hard shoulder adds capacity for a few years but soon the road will be just as clogged with traffic as before.

Don't even need those 'few years'. We were going up the motorway network (M23, M25, then most of the M1) on Friday, and the near-gridlock started around Crawley and continued unabated as far as Nottingham. A journey from Sussex to West Yorkshire, that normally takes us about five hours, took just under nine hours. Admittedly this was a Bank Holiday weekend and we expected things to be busier than usual - but this? (Note, this was the day before that dreadful crash on the M1 that claimed 8 lives).

I don't usually rant about traffic jams: I count myself one of the lucky ones in that I don't have to endure this on a daily basis . This is just an observation, not a rant. But - if this is the result of 'smartening' the motorway network, heaven help us when some really smart-alec gets their grubby hands on the traffic management computers.....

I find it almost impossible to put up with delays like this, instead of just accepting there is nothing I can do, I feel like doing what the chap the a film did where he just got out of his car and walked away. Sorry I can't remember the film but I share the sense of frustration.
We've all tales off traffic jams and my worse was 3 hours stuck on the M25. There had been an accident and the road came to a standstill.
The cost of all these jams must be enormous and I've not heard of a long term answer just stop gaps like this thread title. Just too many people on a small island.

My worst was seven hours spent with the handbrake on and engine off on the A14.

I had left work 15 minutes early (had I not done so I'd have been diverted off the A14 and missed most of the 'fun') and came to a complete stop just about 5 miles from home.
Handbrake was on straight away, engine was off pretty darn soon.
In the 7 hours that we were there there wasn't a single police officer or highways agency officer who came down the line to check if there was anyone who might be in medical need of anything (fortunately a friend was stopped about 5-6 cars behind me and we fed and watered the kids in the cars around us (she'd been shopping that morning)). The HGV radio chatter was that those people who, after 5 hours sat in a stationary queue, turned and went back to the last junction were being stopped and ticketed for 'driving the wrong way'.

It's one of those ridiculous circumstances - because it would have been obvious to anyone at the front that this was going to be several hours of closure. A single radio call to get a couple of HA officers working from the back of the queue to turn people around and send them back up to the previous junction (leaving HGVs to last - since they are rather more equipped for a stop than most others, and they are harder to turn) would have emptied that section of road in a couple of hours at most.

[thirdcrank]

I suppose they could consider a sort of mobile catering franchise, on a similar model to motorway service area catering. Drinks and sandwiches all the year round, ice cream vans in summer, baked potatoes when Jack Frost's about.

[reohn2]

I suppose they could consider a sort of mobile catering franchise, on a similar model to motorway service area catering. Drinks and sandwiches all the year round, ice cream vans in summer, baked potatoes when Jack Frost's about.

Ah but they wouldn't have a hard shoulder to cruise down the traffic jam so people could stop them and buy one

[AlaninWales]

I suppose they could consider a sort of mobile catering franchise, on a similar model to motorway service area catering. Drinks and sandwiches all the year round, ice cream vans in summer, baked potatoes when Jack Frost's about.

Given the regularity and predictability of some motorway traffic jams, that would probably be a sensible business model!

Although given the regularity and predictability of some motorway traffic jams and the potential for them anywhere, I am surprised that parents don't cater for this when taking kids on motorways. I carry enough to cope with any such likelihood: Are parents not expected to be responsible for their children's well-being any more?

[thirdcrank]

Without labouring the point, I can't see much alternative if there's to be catering for people stuck in the jam behind a crash. You probably don't need the police to drive up and down checking who's OK for refreshments; in these days of almost universal mobile phone availability, you could have a nationally-advertised number which people could ring or text. Unless the emergency services had some sort of well-stocked mobile canteen fleet, it's not easy to see how they could usefully respond to the info about who was short of rations, disposable nappies etc. That's why I suggest the private sector.

There was a lot of publicity about this general issue when the Madeley's were stuck on a snow-bound motorway.

[reohn2]

Unless we as a country begin to start makeing some radical changes for moving people around this group of islands we inhabit things are only going to get much worse from a travel time perspective,along with all the associated pollution,cost,stress,and shear inefficiency of there being to much traffic and not enough road.
As has been posted Smart Motorways are only a stop gap and in the not too distant either we build more roads or take a fresh look the whole transport system both local and long distant.
Worth discussing (again)?

[reohn2]

Without labouring the point, I can't see much alternative if there's to be catering for people stuck in the jam behind a crash. You probably don't need the police to drive up and down checking who's OK for refreshments; in these days of almost universal mobile phone availability, you could have a nationally-advertised number which people could ring or text. Unless the emergency services had some sort of well-stocked mobile canteen fleet, it's not easy to see how they could usefully respond to the info about who was short of rations, disposable nappies etc. That's why I suggest the private sector.

There was a lot of publicity about this general issue when the Madeley's were stuck on a snow-bound motorway.

Drones,not you,the flying kind

[mjr]

Unless we as a country begin to start makeing some radical changes for moving people around this group of islands we inhabit things are only going to get much worse from a travel time perspective,along with all the associated pollution,cost,stress,and shear inefficiency of there being to much traffic and not enough road.

Why only deal with the symptom (moving people around) and not the sickness (people feeling they must travel so much)?

As has been posted Smart Motorways are only a stop gap and in the not too distant either we build more roads or take a fresh look the whole transport system both local and long distant.
Worth discussing (again)?

Apparently. Building more roads is just another variation on the "Smart Motorways" idea of adding road capacity to ease congestion which is about as smart as dealing with obesity by buying bigger clothes. At some point, the consequences are going to catch up with us! Will we realise it before we've trashed pretty much everything except agribusiness land and a few national parks?

So what's the national transport equivalent of losing some weight? I feel we've got to start making changes to travel more space-efficiently (which will probably include cycles for short/medium distances and ebikes for medium ones, as well as better mass transport) and to distribute employment and services more evenly so more people can afford to live closer to where they need to go for work or whatever. There are many possible ways to do that, from rail franchise reform to full-on nationalisation, which might work or could be screwed up, but continually tarmacking our green and pleasant land isn't one of them.

[thirdcrank]

Let's not forget that if a certain Bambi hadn't balked at the risk of upsetting drivers, the plan for motorway tolls (can't remember the official title - congestion charging?) would now have been in operation for several years. Smart motorways have loads of sign gantries. There's also the equipment installed to measure the speed and density of the traffic to set variable speed limits. I suspect that if ever we get a government with a big enough majority to introduce something so potentially unpopular as this, it would be technically easy to introduce because so much infrastructure is already in place. A change to electric vehicles would have to include a different source of revenue to replace the duty on vehicle fuel.

[661-Pete]

I think I'm past those days when I might have had a Falling Down moment.... Maybe I've mellowed in my old age - at least as far as traffic jams are concerned. I'm inclined to just sit it out. It's a great advantage, not often being in a hurry to get anywhere!

Last Friday's journey wasn't one of those complete-standstill-for-hours-on-end jobs. Rather, it was one of the fits-and-starts type, with many miles done at around 20mph, several brief stops, interlaced with short breaks when one could reach up to 50mph - for half a minute or so....

All this went on for miles and miles, without any let-up. There was no evident cause for this: merely "sheer volume of traffic".

I wonder if the variable speed limits in the 'smart' sections are in fact set too high? I noticed that they were set at 60mph in the more open sections, and 40mph in the heavily congested sections (where it wasn't possible to go over 30mph anyway!). If a speed limit is set at 60, most motorists will do 70mph, speed cameras notwithstanding, in the belief that they will 'get away with it'.

If the vari-limits were set to, say, 45mph in the more open sections, rather than 60, maybe the pockets of heavy congestion wouldn't build up in the way they did.

[thirdcrank]

... I wonder if the variable speed limits in the 'smart' sections are in fact set too high? ... .

That's often the case round here. M62 between J's 25 and 30. If the tailored limit is substantially higher than the speed of what is in effect a briskly moving traffic jam, it's at best pointless and at worst dangerous.

[[XAP]Bob]

Although given the regularity and predictability of some motorway traffic jams and the potential for them anywhere, I am surprised that parents don't cater for this when taking kids on motorways. I carry enough to cope with any such likelihood: Are parents not expected to be responsible for their children's well-being any more?

How much time *do* you cater for?

I was fortunate enough to be on my own, and adult. I can cope with a few hours without food...
But if you were doing a ten mile trip - how many hours worth of food do you take?

Because if on every little trip you take enough food and entertainment for 7+ hours then I'd suggest you are over prepared, and probably wasting food and fuel...
Particularly when you note that many of those trips would be to go and eat somewhere (like home)...

[[XAP]Bob]

Without labouring the point, I can't see much alternative if there's to be catering for people stuck in the jam behind a crash. You probably don't need the police to drive up and down checking who's OK for refreshments; in these days of almost universal mobile phone availability, you could have a nationally-advertised number which people could ring or text. Unless the emergency services had some sort of well-stocked mobile canteen fleet, it's not easy to see how they could usefully respond to the info about who was short of rations, disposable nappies etc. That's why I suggest the private sector.

There was a lot of publicity about this general issue when the Madeley's were stuck on a snow-bound motorway.

I don't mean every little delay - but it was clear from the arrival of the first services personnel that this would be many hours...
And times have changed since that incident (which was over a decade ago now)...

The police don't need to respond with serious catering, but to tell the HA to get down there... We had at least one insulin dependent diabetic close to us. The easiest were actually the breast fed babes, because a ready supply of food is available. Slightly older, or bottle fed, babes/infants were more difficult to provide for.

Surely the HA should be able to deal with things like that - escort the insulin dependant diabetic etc. back to the previous junction. For my friend it should have been a ten minute journey, not one you take a great deal of time to prepare for.