New words/vocab on this forum, these fora, forae, forums, chatboards..

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mikeymo
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Re: New words/vocab learnt on these fora

Postby mikeymo » 2 Jul 2020, 10:58am

661-Pete wrote:"Fora".

OK not a new word as such, but one I don't think I used to hear, much, until the phenomenon of the 'internet forum' sprang into existence in the early 2000's.

I don't like it. I can't stop people using it, but to me it sounds an ugly piece of over-Latinised pedantry. I always say "forums" which is a perfectly acceptable English plural.


I agree, though it is a frequently used Latinate plural, in some places. I wonder if it is sometimes used in the hope that readers will infer something about the erudition of the writer.
Last edited by mikeymo on 2 Jul 2020, 11:55am, edited 3 times in total.

mikeymo
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Re: New words/vocab learnt on these fora

Postby mikeymo » 2 Jul 2020, 11:02am

661-Pete wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
nirakaro wrote:+1. Fora is the recommended usage if you're talking about a number of ancient Roman public squares. Otherwise forums.
(My emphasis)


Getting rusty here and I was never much good in the first place but shouldn't that be foris? :wink:

Only in the dative or ablative. Forum is a second-declension neuter noun. It goes:
Forum, forum, forum, fori, foro, foro; Fora, fora, fora, fororum, foris, foris.


Apologies, I didn't realise this had all been done, two and a half years ago.

So the thread title should be "New words/vocab learnt on these foris" ? Ablative being the case for location, on/in/at?

thirdcrank
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Re: New words/vocab on these fora

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Jul 2020, 11:17am

My Fowler's 4th edition (Butterfield) has quite a long entry on the plural form of forum in different contexts.

It recommends forums in normal use.

It concludes with this:

... When used as the plural of 'an Internet site where users can post comments about an issue' it creates a piquant discord between the ultramodern and the ancient, or is utterly pretentious, depending on you point of view. ...


"Creates piquant discord" seems to be a euphemism for the T word.

mikeymo
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Re: New words/vocab on these fora

Postby mikeymo » 2 Jul 2020, 11:23am

thirdcrank wrote:My Fowler's 4th edition (Butterfield) has quite a long entry on the plural form of forum in different contexts.

It recommends forums in normal use.

It concludes with this:

... When used as the plural of 'an Internet site where users can post comments about an issue' it creates a piquant discord between the ultramodern and the ancient, or is utterly pretentious, depending on you point of view. ...


"Creates piquant discord" seems to be a euphemism for the T word.


I'm not sure where my Fowler even is, these days. But I'm fairly sure that it predates the internet. I didn't realise it had been updated to include things like internet sites. Yes, interesting observation you make about the meaning of "Creates piquant discord".

Mike Sales
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Re: New words/vocab on these fora

Postby Mike Sales » 2 Jul 2020, 11:31am

This is interesting, and takes me back many years to the days when I achieved Grade 9 in Latin O level.
We are after all writing in English, not Latin, so I agree with Third Crank's modern edition of Fowler.

In those long ago days we sat a CSE experimental paper in Latin, and my position in class jumped from last to second, because it consisted only of Latin to English translation. I could never be bothered with all those fiddly word endings, but could write decent English.

Oldjohnw
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Re: New words/vocab on these fora

Postby Oldjohnw » 2 Jul 2020, 11:32am

Nominative Forum Fora
Genitive Fori Fororum
Dative Foro Foris
Accusative Forum Fora
Ablative Foro Foris
Vocative Forum Fora

But I still cannot remember which is which with ablative and accusative.
John

thirdcrank
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Re: New words/vocab on these fora

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Jul 2020, 11:34am

The fourth edition was published in 2015 and things have come a long way since the original collection of one person's opinions.

From the forward to this latest revision:

The use I have made of the Oxford English Corpus marks a watershed ...


I take this to mean that it includes current international usage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_English_Corpus

Oldjohnw
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Re: New words/vocab on these fora

Postby Oldjohnw » 2 Jul 2020, 11:35am

My recollection not forums/fora is forums on here but fora if Roman market places.

My wife spent 30 years teaching languages. Since retiring she teaches Latin for U3A. I'll ask her for a view.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 2 Jul 2020, 11:43am, edited 1 time in total.
John

thirdcrank
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Re: New words/vocab on these fora

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Jul 2020, 11:38am

Oldjohnw wrote:My recollection not forums/fora is forums on here but fora if Roman market places.


That's exactly it. The entry is longer than I am going to bother typing and I thought that scanning the page would be cheeky and probably an infringement of copyright

mikeymo
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Re: New words/vocab on these forae

Postby mikeymo » 2 Jul 2020, 11:41am

And don't get me started on "datums"

mikeymo
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Re: New words/vocab learnt on these fora

Postby mikeymo » 2 Jul 2020, 12:55pm

gaz wrote:Thoyle. My thanks go to thirdcrank for introducing it to me, I await a suitable opportunity to use it in conversation.

Cyril Haearn wrote:I assert that I coined *farcebook*

The data shows farcebook in use three years and one day before you joined the forum.


Correct use of latin singular or plural is all the rage these days.

I could only see one example of 'Farcebook' there. So surely 'The datum shows' is correct?

Or if there is more than one example 'The data show'.

thirdcrank
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Re: New words/vocab on these forae

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Jul 2020, 8:13pm

Ultimately, usage prevails but meaning may be lost on the way.

"Forensic" used to be an adjective derived from forum and it meant connected with the courts or legal system. Hence, forensic science, a discipline that uses techniques like the analysis of DNA to obtain evidence for court purposes. "Forensics" seems to have become a synonym for forensic science. In the process, any other usage has at least diminished.

In an earlier age, before disclosure of evidence to the defence, a police sergeant from that earlier age told me a tale about the era when the Home Office forensic science lab for these parts was housed in a former suburban dwellinghouse in Harrogate. He'd been attending court at Leeds Town Hall and in the scrum before hearings started, he'd been renewing acquaintances with the forensic science service liaison officer. A few minutes later, he was approached by the defendant's worried-looking brief who asked if there was forensic evidence. On being told there was indeed forensic evidence, he dashed off and advised his client to plead guilty. ie All evidence at a trial is by definition forensic. If the learned friends who introduced this mumbo-jumbo to add to the mystery of their activities don't do etymology, we might do better sticking to plain English.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: New words/vocab on these forae

Postby Cyril Haearn » 2 Jul 2020, 8:17pm

I was puzzled but that f-word too. A former senior policeperson told me it referred to a Scandinavian officer, Inspector Ensic. Any time there was trouble the call was: 'send for Ensic!' :wink:
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Oldjohnw
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Re: New words/vocab on these forae

Postby Oldjohnw » 2 Jul 2020, 8:25pm

Latin forensis meaning from or out of the forum.

But Cyril's explanation is much more fun.
John

mikeymo
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Re: New words/vocab on these forae

Postby mikeymo » 3 Jul 2020, 1:25am

thirdcrank wrote:Ultimately, usage prevails but meaning may be lost on the way.

"Forensic" used to be an adjective derived from forum and it meant connected with the courts or legal system.


Has any meaning been lost? I don't think the past tense - "meant" - applies. Forensic still means exactly what you say it means, to do with the courts. That's why there are such things as forensic accountants, forensic psychologists etc.
Last edited by mikeymo on 3 Jul 2020, 10:36am, edited 1 time in total.