Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

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brynpoeth
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby brynpoeth » 28 Mar 2018, 5:31am

Germany is a big successful popular nation comprising 16 states, each with its own parliament and burocracy, there is no serious talk of splitting up (although one talks of 'Germany and Bayern') :wink:, the border regions join up with their neighbours in Poland and Belgium &c

The Sorbs have a bit of autonomy too but not their own Bundesland, +1

Maybe the German federal model could be applied elsewhere. Creates a lot of burocracy mind, cos some tasks are done 16 times
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brynpoeth
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby brynpoeth » 29 Mar 2018, 4:59am

Apparently the OLG Oberlandesgericht, regional court, will not decide yet whether Puigdemont will be sent to Spain

Will he be the new Assange?
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MarkF
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby MarkF » 31 Mar 2018, 4:28pm

pwa wrote:
MarkF wrote:The % of Catalans voting for independence has not changed (much) for a long time, even after all the pro-indie shenanigans and buying of votes. But now, there are real social divisions and bitterness, the Spanish state is not responsible for that.


So why don't they just organise a proper referendum, like we did with Scotland. Like we did with Wales in the 1970s? What are they scared of? It seems to me that we in the UK have more respect for our regions / countries than Spain has. Maybe that makes us weak, but I think not. I think there is strength in being willing to let go.


Well.....Spain is not the UK.....

I have spent a lot of time in Badalona since the late 80's, not much has change since that time and astonishingly, not much has changed to today in the % wanting independence. IF there was an overwhelming desire for independence (from Catalans, not via bought votes & promises) then I'd have sympathy, but there is not, so I don't.

mercalia
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby mercalia » 5 Apr 2018, 10:53pm

it seems the German court has released Carles Puigdemont

"A German court has rejected "rebellion" as grounds to extradite Catalonia's ex-leader Carles Puigdemont and ordered his release on bail."

Those Spanish dont get it do they that Franco is DEAD and therre are no politcal crimes in the EU?

I cant see that he will be sent back on corruption charges as then the Spanish will then charge him with a politcal charge?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43659699

brynpoeth
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby brynpoeth » 6 Apr 2018, 12:13am

His alleged crime is not a crime in Germany
He has to pay € 75 000 as a surety and may not leave Germany :wink:
He must report once a week to the 'Poelitzei' in Neumuenster (a small town in Germany)
Will he ever go back home? Can he speak German?
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mercalia
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby mercalia » 6 Apr 2018, 1:09am


mercalia
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby mercalia » 9 Apr 2018, 5:50am

updates

"Spain mulls appealing Germany's Puigdemont extradition ruling to EU court"

seems like Spain unlikely to get its way in Germany so may approach the eu court of justice to force them to comply :roll:

"Even if he is extradited on the lesser charge, the German court's refusal to accept the rebellion charge means under European law Puigdemont cannot be prosecuted in Spain for the offence, which several Spanish law professors and rights groups have called extreme."

https://www.thelocal.de/20180407/spain-mulls-appealing-puigdemont-extradition-ruling-to-eu-court

and it seems Spain may not achieve better results in Scotland with another rebel

https://www.thelocal.es/20180408/catalan-ex-minister-confident-scotland-will-reject-spains-extradition-demand

"CLARA Ponsati, the former Catalan government minister facing extradition from Scotland, is to be held personally responsible for every single injury sustained by members of the Spanish security forces during violence at the independence referendum, the Sunday Herald has learned....This means Ponsati – who is chair of economics at St Andrews and who served as a Catalan Government minister for only three months after taking a sabbatical from her university role – could be held accountable for injuries she played no physical part in. " :roll:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16144593.Revealed__The_inside_story_of_the_St_Andrews_professor_wanted_by_Spain/

brynpoeth
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby brynpoeth » 9 Apr 2018, 6:04am

President Puigdemont thanked his captors who had cared for him in jail (in German, +1), then he made a statement (in English, +2)
A lot more people have heard of Neumuenster now (a small town in Germany), +3
He paid a deposit of € 75 000 and may not leave Germany :?

One wonders what he does for washing, will he find somewhere to rent or will he stay in hotels, after being released he went straight to Berlin
Who pays for it all?
Is he the new Assange?
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Apr 2018, 8:45am

Would it be +3 if he did an interview in Welsh? If any politician from outside Wales did that I'd be happy and very surprised (plus in need of subtitles). I'd certainly like to see the confused looks on reporters faces.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Apr 2018, 9:10am

Assange is starting to **** off his hosts. A change in governing party has meant he's got very little support for being there. In fact IIRC the new president wants him out. He's only allowed to be there provided his online activities don't affect his host's national interests. He posted on something recently and his hosts turned the Internet services off to him.

The Catalonian guy is also free to move about and try to influence matters / fight his corner. Assange is a ****** but I'm not sure he's got much clout these days. He's a figurehead for some but nothing more.

brynpoeth
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby brynpoeth » 9 Apr 2018, 6:15pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Would it be +3 if he did an interview in Welsh? If any politician from outside Wales did that I'd be happy and very surprised (plus in need of subtitles). I'd certainly like to see the confused looks on reporters faces.

Plus pedwar, plus four of course :wink:
The Hon Member for Skye Badenoch & Lochaber made a speech in her own language at Holyrood
Some of the other members did not need a translation, +5
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mjr
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby mjr » 17 Apr 2018, 11:25am

brynpoeth wrote:Maybe the German federal model could be applied elsewhere. Creates a lot of burocracy mind, cos some tasks are done 16 times

Would Germany allow a Land to leave the Federation? I think there were referendums decades ago about where the Saar area would go, but they chose to join/rejoin Germany both times.

As for duplication - better 16 Lands than the 83 administrative counties currently in England alone? And quite possibly the former English regions would be the basis for Lands, so there would be 9.
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brynpoeth
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Apr 2018, 5:32pm

mjr wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Maybe the German federal model could be applied elsewhere. Creates a lot of burocracy mind, cos some tasks are done 16 times

Would Germany allow a Land to leave the Federation? I think there were referendums decades ago about where the Saar area would go, but they chose to join/rejoin Germany both times.

As for duplication - better 16 Lands than the 83 administrative counties currently in England alone? And quite possibly the former English regions would be the basis for Lands, so there would be 9.

Saarland chose to join or rejoin, in 1990 the East joined, acceded, 'reunification' is not quite the right word
The people at the top of Germany (on the map) are quite different from those at the bottom, the regions have enough identity and autonomy, they know they do best together
Bayern is regarded by many as semi-detached to the rest of Germany, it pays money to the other states now but for many years it was a taker
At Frankfurt/Oder one can see the future working, Germany and Poland are growing together
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mercalia
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Re: Catalonia: Democracy (European style)

Postby mercalia » 1 Jun 2018, 11:54am

So the hammer of catalonia, Rajoy, has been ousted from power with a vote of no confidence? I bet he wished he hadnt been so hardline over Catalonia now, as they with the Basques were instrumental in what was a narrow majority in the vote?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44327573