Theresa's speech.

[reohn2]

I have to say that whilst I don't agree with the Tory government one bit or it's policies,and believe the content of her speech when I see it,I did feel sorry for her on a personal level when watching the speech on tv last night,it really couldn't have got much worse for her.
Her voice giving out,due to a cold I believe and then at the end the sign falling apart was a disaster and full marks to her for soldiering on IMO
How that chap was allowed to get so near to her whilst she was on the stage I find incredible and bewildering TBH

Agreed. We need to get to a point where politicians can be respected even if we don't agree with them. I admit there is a long way to go but this kind of thing doesn't help at all. Sep Blatter might have been fair game but somethings are more important than football, despite what Shankly thought.

EDIT:- Sorry overreacted,apologies.Old windbag has it right.
We are being ruled by selfseeking nestfeatherers in the pocket of multinational tax avoiding business.
It's money,big money that's behind them,interesred in getting away with as much profit as possible from those who can least afford to live,without causing a revolution.
Keep 'em hooked by keeping 'em in debt,whilst the rich get richer at the poor's expense.
Its the Tory way,the old school tie brigade adapted by showing the world they're upto date by voting a woman in as their leader.
The country is going down like a lead balloon,services cut year on year,whilst a bankrupt government devoid of ideas,and who's close friends in the banking sector cleaned out their own banks by gambling for their own personal profit,banks that then had to be propped with the country's reserves.
And who pays.?
Why the people of course,we can't expect the banks to pay it back now can we
The system and the government are a disgraceful shambles that presides over an ever growming gap between the rich and the poor,that in a time of growing crisis promises more tax cuts to the rich,whilst their other friends big business pays no tax at all due to collander like tax laws to suit them.
The term is all piddling into the say pot!

[old_windbag]

We need to get to a point where politicians can be respected even if we don't agree with them

When people enter an occupation not driven by the salary, their vaulting ambition or the influence the position offers them to further feather their nest, then we may have someone who could be respected. But that individual should have foresight and to coin a cliche "think out of the box" to bring a fairer uk. This country has a benefit and tax system that is outdated and feeds money to those who don't need it, it is stagnant and needs the rare type of people who have made the major step changes of the past to move us forward. Corbyn had some good ideas that were achievable but it was on the whole how labour used to be, but a good alternative. We have serious problems to resolve at a societal level that classics graduates won't solve in a month of sundays.

[horizon]

How that chap was allowed to get so near to her whilst she was on the stage I find incredible and bewildering TBH

She wasn't harmed, he was harmless. Looks like security was fine.

[reohn2]

How that chap was allowed to get so near to her whilst she was on the stage I find incredible and bewildering TBH

She wasn't harmed, he was harmless. Looks like security was fine.

It isn't what did happen that matters,but what could've happened with security so lax

[kwackers]

It isn't what did happen that matters,but what could've happened with security so lax

Yep, that could have been a REAL P45...

[geocycle]

We need to get to a point where politicians can be respected even if we don't agree with them

When people enter an occupation not driven by the salary, their vaulting ambition or the influence the position offers them to further feather their nest, then we may have someone who could be respected. But that individual should have foresight and to coin a cliche "think out of the box" to bring a fairer uk. This country has a benefit and tax system that is outdated and feeds money to those who don't need it, it is stagnant and needs the rare type of people who have made the major step changes of the past to move us forward. Corbyn had some good ideas that were achievable but it was on the whole how labour used to be, but a good alternative. We have serious problems to resolve at a societal level that classics graduates won't solve in a month of sundays.

I also agree. I know several politicians and the majority do genuinely want to make things better with no interest in their own wealth. Their families take a huge battering and many end up personally scarred. However, I accept that there are a large number (majority?) who are arrogant self serving.... Unfortunately that is the group that the media portray and it erodes any respect for the whole political class.

[reohn2]

It isn't what did happen that matters,but what could've happened with security so lax

Yep, that could have been a REAL P45...

He could've hopped up onto the stage and caused her some real physical damage with his bare hands,before security got to him.

[old_windbag]

However, I accept that there are a large number (majority?) who are arrogant self serving.... Unfortunately that is the group that the media portray and it erodes any respect for the whole political class.

I think because I made a joke about Ms May, alongside several others, then I was put in the camp of being an old school bully( NA post ). But if a person has impeccable qualities and does a job flawlessly then satire( thats what it is really ) would never apply to them. It is is only that the politicians who make it to cabinet and shadow cabinet are so painfully poor at what they do that they become laughing stocks. Amongst these there may be good but overall the impression they give when on television and being questioned under pressure, are that of people who simply are in the wrong job and are struggling to keep up the blagging before being found out. It's when you have the humility to accept that you cannot do a particular job and choose a different career path that you gain respect. That may mean a pay cut and poorer pension prospects, but if it is in the countries best interests for you to do so then you should. They may excel at that different career.

I think it's the system and human psychology at fault. To rise to such ranks you cannot be completely "Mr Nice Guy" in the system we have. I think there are many more humble individuals( perhaps those you mention ) who will be submissive to the dominant ego's and possibly class background, that they stay as a standard MP not known to any but their local constituents who vote them in term after term on grounds of work done. Also because this is what they wanted to do, sadly my local mp is not one of those, very much a Theresa May/Thatcher modelled individual. I've seen first hand how people with received pronounciation were able to put forward flawed ideas over others sound ideas who could not convey them as eruditely. It's confidence and class to a degree, I think being born into middle and upper class families gives a person that edge, to have blinding belief in their ideas even when completely wrong.

[PH]

We need to get to a point where politicians can be respected even if we don't agree with them. I admit there is a long way to go but this kind of thing doesn't help at all.

Political satire is as old as politics, it works when the point being made with humour finds some resonance with the audience. Man hands PM a piece of paper isn't a story. She wasn't being mocked on a personal level, someone was humorously telling her that her premiership is at an end. You can read the same comment in all the media today, do you think that lacks respect?
As for the breach of security, I don't get it, politicians are venerable to being handed pieces of paper all the time.

[Psamathe]

Most commentators seem to be feeling sorry for her or talking about replacing her because of a stunt, a cough and a falling letter!. Those things are trivia, part of life. The tragedy was the vacuous speech. 5000 homes a year (which
seemed to be adjusted to 7000 a year but for a shorter time), an energy price cap (that was madness when Labour were going to do it, then in the Conservative manifesto, then dropped (after they won the election), now on again except since the speech it now seems it might not on be any more!).

But, a real case of "be careful what you wish for". She might be a disaster but just look at who is most likely to replace her

1. Blobby: who seems to want the EU to whistle for UK's obligations, wants bodies cleared out of Sirte, recites offensive poetry in foreign countries ...
2. Moggy: Rather extreme religious views, but I'm sure his Etonian chums will do fine out of his extreme Brexit
3. Davis: Who will pursue ideology over the interests of the country, and pursue job progression over personal beliefs (remember his Snooper's Charter arguments)

C4 News had a really rubbish Brexit debate last night (all Remain supporters) and there was a woman who worked with youngsters and she had been travelling the country talking to youngsters debating to make sure we "get a Brexit that works for youngsters" and my only thought was did she really believe any politician was paying the slightest interest in what the country thinks and what youngsters thing. nearly 5 years to next election so Conservatives feel safe and no need to listen to anybody (except the DUP, but I'm sure they'll find more £bn if needed to keep those votes)

Ian

[PH]

But, a real case of "be careful what you wish for". She might be a disaster but just look at who is most likely to replace her

1. Blobby: who seems to want the EU to whistle for UK's obligations, wants bodies cleared out of Sirte, recites offensive poetry in foreign countries ...
2. Moggy: Rather extreme religious views, but I'm sure his Etonian chums will do fine out of his extreme Brexit
3. Davis: Who will pursue ideology over the interests of the country, and pursue job progression over personal beliefs (remember his Snooper's Charter arguments)

Ian

You've missed off Amber Rudd. I have a little flutter on her being the Tory leader at the next election, at considerable better odds than are currently on offer. I also put a couple of quid on Rees-Mogg when he was a wild outsider, but I think he's overdone the exposure but hasn't got the support, plus he's young enough to sit this one out. It won't be Boris, too many enemies within the Tory establishment, his best chance has gone and he probably knows it, when the time comes he may not even put himself forward.

[kwackers]

Political satire is as old as politics

It all makes me realise how much I miss Spitting Image.

[reohn2]

However, I accept that there are a large number (majority?) who are arrogant self serving.... Unfortunately that is the group that the media portray and it erodes any respect for the whole political class.

I think because I made a joke about Ms May, alongside several others, then I was put in the camp of being an old school bully( NA post ). But if a person has impeccable qualities and does a job flawlessly then satire( thats what it is really ) would never apply to them. It is is only that the politicians who make it to cabinet and shadow cabinet are so painfully poor at what they do that they become laughing stocks. Amongst these there may be good but overall the impression they give when on television and being questioned under pressure, are that of people who simply are in the wrong job and are struggling to keep up the blagging before being found out. It's when you have the humility to accept that you cannot do a particular job and choose a different career path that you gain respect. That may mean a pay cut and poorer pension prospects, but if it is in the countries best interests for you to do so then you should. They may excel at that different career.

I think it's the system and human psychology at fault. To rise to such ranks you cannot be completely "Mr Nice Guy" in the system we have. I think there are many more humble individuals( perhaps those you mention ) who will be submissive to the dominant ego's and possibly class background, that they stay as a standard MP not known to any but their local constituents who vote them in term after term on grounds of work done. Also because this is what they wanted to do, sadly my local mp is not one of those, very much a Theresa May/Thatcher modelled individual. I've seen first hand how people with received pronounciation were able to put forward flawed ideas over others sound ideas who could not convey them as eruditely. It's confidence and class to a degree, I think being born into middle and upper class families gives a person that edge, to have blinding belief in their ideas even when completely wrong.

I think you're right.
What stood out to me in Mrs May's speech was how she apologised to the party for the wrong PR during the election campaign,which is the mark of someone(and her advisors) who made a complete pigs ear of the whole camaign by the way she approached it,not once did she say anything in that apology about the Tory party's aweful manifesto or lack of it.
It showed to me that from the Tory POV this politicking is all a game to get power not a concern to do the best for the country as a whole(the country being all the people,their welbeing and quality of life),look who funds the Tory party and whether they care for the society in which we live in and you have the answer.
It's all to do with cutting costs to the bone whilst maximising profit and lowering standards,in services across the board,whether that be councils,police,NHS,border control,coastguard,health inspectors,food standards,the whole system that protects society from those who seek profit over any other consideration.
Those people fund the Tory and the former Blair Nude Labour party,the words fox,guard and hen coup springs to mind !
Oh yes they make more laws but if there's no one to enforce those laws they're useless,athis has been a degradation over many years since the right wing neo liberalisation of politics became so popular and jam tomorrow was always tomorrow and never today!

[reohn2]

Most commentators seem to be feeling sorry for her or talking about replacing her because of a stunt, a cough and a falling letter!. Those things are trivia, part of life. The tragedy was the vacuous speech. 5000 homes a year (which
seemed to be adjusted to 7000 a year but for a shorter time), an energy price cap (that was madness when Labour were going to do it, then in the Conservative manifesto, then dropped (after they won the election), now on again except since the speech it now seems it might not on be any more!).

But, a real case of "be careful what you wish for". She might be a disaster but just look at who is most likely to replace her

1. Blobby: who seems to want the EU to whistle for UK's obligations, wants bodies cleared out of Sirte, recites offensive poetry in foreign countries ...
2. Moggy: Rather extreme religious views, but I'm sure his Etonian chums will do fine out of his extreme Brexit
3. Davis: Who will pursue ideology over the interests of the country, and pursue job progression over personal beliefs (remember his Snooper's Charter arguments)

C4 News had a really rubbish Brexit debate last night (all Remain supporters) and there was a woman who worked with youngsters and she had been travelling the country talking to youngsters debating to make sure we "get a Brexit that works for youngsters" and my only thought was did she really believe any politician was paying the slightest interest in what the country thinks and what youngsters thing. nearly 5 years to next election so Conservatives feel safe and no need to listen to anybody (except the DUP, but I'm sure they'll find more £bn if needed to keep those votes)

Ian

Just read this.
SpotOn!

[Psamathe]

But, a real case of "be careful what you wish for". She might be a disaster but just look at who is most likely to replace her

1. Blobby: who seems to want the EU to whistle for UK's obligations, wants bodies cleared out of Sirte, recites offensive poetry in foreign countries ...
2. Moggy: Rather extreme religious views, but I'm sure his Etonian chums will do fine out of his extreme Brexit
3. Davis: Who will pursue ideology over the interests of the country, and pursue job progression over personal beliefs (remember his Snooper's Charter arguments)

Ian

You've missed off Amber Rudd. I have a little flutter on her being the Tory leader at the next election, at considerable better odds than are currently on offer.

I did (miss her off). Personal opinion but I think she is a long shot. Plus I don't like her. She seems unable to even obey the law, seems out of her depth. That said, we might get a more sensible Brexit from her. And Boris does seem to do what she says (e.g. when she "had brief strong words" with hi, instructing his to stand of the "standing ovation" for Saint Teresa' speech).

I also put a couple of quid on Rees-Mogg when he was a wild outsider, but I think he's overdone the exposure but hasn't got the support, plus he's young enough to sit this one out.

He looks quite old to me (or maybe it's his "character" that presents his as being "old"). He's certainly been campaigning for the post (as hard as any of them are allowed to "campaign" without being seem as "disloyal"). He brings out the important difference between Conservatve Membership and Electorate. Mogg might be popular with the Conservative membership (posh accesnt, wealthy, right accent, Old Etonian, etc.) but for exactly the same reasons would not do well with the electorate as a whole.

It won't be Boris, too many enemies within the Tory establishment, his best chance has gone and he probably knows it, when the time comes he may not even put himself forward.

I think it was the BBC Newsnight political commentator (might be wrong, might be the C4 news guy) who summed up Boris' prospects in that Boris is very popular with the Conservative Party members but they will never get to tick a box with his name next to it because Boris is not popular enough with the other MPs to ever get to the final 2 names put to the membership.

Ian