Diesel scrappage

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thirdcrank
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Diesel scrappage

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Oct 2017, 7:20am

There's been a lot of heat generated in the media about scrappage schemes but little (no?) official information about what's available. We have two cars and till quite recently "needed" both in that some of our day-to-day activities, especially caring for family members, were done separately and would have been impossible using public transport. We are now able to do many more things together and plan the rest so as not to coincide. The older car - first reg 1.9.05 55 reg has been properly maintained and has only done 50,000 miles which is nothing for a diesel car. It predates the requirement for a diesel particulate filter or the regs on other emissions. Second hand value peanuts, even with over 10 months mot remaining.

So, what is anybody in authority doing to get cars like that off the road? Googling "diesel scrappage" produces no official info, but the position seems to be this: if the car is traded in against a new one, it will qualify for a part exchange of at least £2,500 and potentially a fair bit more under a combination of gov't money and manufacturers' incentives.

A scheme to promote the sales of new cars under the guise of helping the environment.

rjb
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby rjb » 20 Oct 2017, 8:30am

Hi TC,
I have an 8 year old i10 which I purchased under the previous scrap page scheme. I recently received this letter from the dealer highlighting the new scheme, which is offering between £1500 and £5000 off the price of a new vehicle, if you scrap your old vehicle, petrol, or diesel. Presumably the more you pay the more discount is available! The cynics view in me is that this is just marketing hype on behalf of manufacturers to sell more vehicles due to flagging sales as referenced recently by the fall in retail sales statistics.
image.jpg


Caveat emptor. :lol:
Last edited by rjb on 20 Oct 2017, 8:32am, edited 1 time in total.
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, 2 Dawes Kingpins, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, On One Pompino, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

pwa
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby pwa » 20 Oct 2017, 8:31am

Some of those slightly older diesels are less polluting than more recent ones in real life conditions, though they come out worse on the misleading EU test.

I don't like the scrappage idea. The reason is it puts money in the pockets of people who don't need it. People who are in the market for a new car.

pete75
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby pete75 » 20 Oct 2017, 9:01am

pwa wrote:
I don't like the scrappage idea. The reason is it puts money in the pockets of people who don't need it. People who are in the market for a new car.


Know all their individual circumstances do you?

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Mick F
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Mick F » 20 Oct 2017, 9:03am

The Nissan Quashi-wotst is 14x over the legal limit even though they are brand new cars.
I'd bring in a scrappage scheme right away for all diesel cars and vans.

The motor industry is suffering from a vast decrease in medium car sales and did I read somewhere that Vauxhall are cutting back to only one shift per day?

Smaller (petrol) cars and hybrids and fully electric cars are on the rise, but medium sized cars both diesel and petrol are in decline ........ especially diesel ones.

We too have gone down to one car from two. We now have a hybrid.
Mick F. Cornwall

pete75
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby pete75 » 20 Oct 2017, 9:07am

thirdcrank wrote:The older car - first reg 1.9.05 55 reg has been properly maintained and has only done 50,000 miles which is nothing for a diesel car. It predates the requirement for a diesel particulate filter or the regs on other emissions. Second hand value peanuts, even with over 10 months mot remaining.

So, what is anybody in authority doing to get cars like that off the road? Googling "diesel scrappage" produces no official info, but the position seems to be this: if the car is traded in against a new one, it will qualify for a part exchange of at least £2,500 and potentially a fair bit more under a combination of gov't money and manufacturers' incentives.

A scheme to promote the sales of new cars under the guise of helping the environment.


Wonder how much environmental damage building a new vehicle causes compared to continuing to run your 12 year old car.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Tangled Metal » 20 Oct 2017, 9:10am

On a slight digression, what impact does scrappage schemes have on carbon emissions? Once the big bugbear that's been overwhelmed by particulates and other pollutants.

I always thought the evidence pointed to more carbon emissions during manufacture than the life of a car. So you introduce scrappage you get a nice shiny new car, less particulates, less NOx, etc but you've put a whole new car's worth of carbon into the atmosphere.

How does scrappage schemes shape up in the overall pollution picture? A positive or negative on the overall pollution effects? Save the planet or a city's health? It's it that simple? Definitely not but what is the true picture?

BTW all scrappage schemes are new car for old car. It's a simple case of marketing and stimulating a car industry that has gone into a bit of a slowdown. A year or so ago the cat industry was doing a lot better. It's interesting that scrappage schemes kick in on slowdowns. Is it just a coincidence?

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Mick F
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Mick F » 20 Oct 2017, 9:13am

Environmental issues aren't the immediate problem.
Pollution is killing people now.

One of the management mantras is to separate the important things from the immediate things.
Do the immediate first, but it doesn't mean the important things should be forgotten.
Mick F. Cornwall

pwa
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby pwa » 20 Oct 2017, 9:15am

pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:
I don't like the scrappage idea. The reason is it puts money in the pockets of people who don't need it. People who are in the market for a new car.


Know all their individual circumstances do you?


I know if I go looking for a replacement car I'll be looking at second hand, and I don't want the taxes I pay helping people who are better off than me get a shiny new one.

thirdcrank
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Oct 2017, 9:20am

It's certainly the case that the car industry is pretty adept at applying the green spin. My advice to anybody believing that any internal combustion engine is environmentally friendly is to run a pipe from the exhaust into the car through a window and drive around like that.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Tangled Metal » 20 Oct 2017, 9:24am

The only true benefit will come from less cars on the road and more use of cycles, foot and public transport.

Electric/hybrid buses, vans and trucks. Shifting from road haulage to train haulage would help. Cheaper park and ride schemes around train stations, say parking is included in ticket from out of town Station. More trains in. Less cars. We need fewer cars and smaller, more efficient ones.

Of course a big, efficient car is possible but surely less to move around is better or could be made better.

BTW I know someone with a Honda crv company car. It was more efficient engine and less overall pollution than the only other car options offered. So he got it and was forever getting Greenpeace fake parking tickets on secure, private, works car park about how he was killing the planet with his nasty, polluting SUV. He should have got that estate car with a CO2 emissions level that put over £100 on his VED. Apparently Greenpeace prefer pollution to SUVs through the ignorance of their activists. Digression.

BTW we read about the scrappage scheme but can't afford a new car. What about scrappage schemes for more efficient, used cars? If they did that then I'll believe it's not a marketing scheme and take them up on it.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Tangled Metal » 20 Oct 2017, 9:25am

thirdcrank wrote:It's certainly the case that the car industry is pretty adept at applying the green spin. My advice to anybody believing that any internal combustion engine is environmentally friendly is to run a pipe from the exhaust into the car through a window and drive around like that.

Can we make automotive car executives and MPs do that until they actually take pollution seriously? Until there's electric cars, vans, buses, etc everywhere?

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meic
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby meic » 20 Oct 2017, 9:26am

Environmental issues aren't the immediate problem.
Pollution is killing people now.


The environmental solution is already too late. We have passed the point of preventing climate change (and the damage it causes) from now on it is about trying to limit the level of harm done.

The specific type of pollution being discussed here is just easier to isolate as a direct cause and effect.
Not more urgent or important, just easier to be precise about.
Yma o Hyd

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby PDQ Mobile » 20 Oct 2017, 9:28am

thirdcrank wrote:It's certainly the case that the car industry is pretty adept at applying the green spin. My advice to anybody believing that any internal combustion engine is environmentally friendly is to run a pipe from the exhaust into the car through a window and drive around like that.

I had a neighbour that did that, it did turn him "green"!

Bonefishblues
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Bonefishblues » 20 Oct 2017, 9:36am

Tangled Metal wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:It's certainly the case that the car industry is pretty adept at applying the green spin. My advice to anybody believing that any internal combustion engine is environmentally friendly is to run a pipe from the exhaust into the car through a window and drive around like that.

Can we make automotive car executives and MPs do that until they actually take pollution seriously? Until there's electric cars, vans, buses, etc everywhere?

TBF every manufacturer is busting a gut to get them to market and develop the technology. They too see which way it's going.