Diesel scrappage

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Ruadh495
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Ruadh495 » 20 Oct 2017, 4:32pm

Many businesses seem to lease their vehicles and I've always wondered what the advantage was. After all the costs, including depreciation, have to be paid for somewhere and the vehicle owner needs to make a profit. All that must be built into the cost of the lease.

May be budget stability is the answer, even though overall cost may be higher. Constant availability must be a factor as well.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby al_yrpal » 20 Oct 2017, 4:34pm

Diesel scrappage ! I wonder how many vehicles traded in on scrappage deals really get scrapped? I am willing to bet that some end up at cheapo car auctions 8)

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. CTC gone but not forgotten!

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Mick F
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Mick F » 20 Oct 2017, 4:37pm

£200 a month would buy a very good used car using a personal loan from your bank.
You'd need a deposit, a good history with your bank, and to sit down with an advisor ........... in the old days, you had an interview with the branch manager.

From driving the car off the forecourt, it would belong to you ............ not the bank, and not to any financial company on HP or PCP.
Mick F. Cornwall

Ruadh495
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Ruadh495 » 20 Oct 2017, 4:44pm

Mick F wrote:£200 a month would buy a very good used car using a personal loan from your bank.
You'd need a deposit, a good history with your bank, and to sit down with an advisor ........... in the old days, you had an interview with the branch manager.

From driving the car off the forecourt, it would belong to you ............ not the bank, and not to any financial company on HP or PCP.


Not for a £200 a month loan. All it takes to borrow £10,000 is put some details into your bank's on-line banking system. I wish I didn't know this, but I do. Been there.

Oh and it doesn't belong to you, really, does it? Any more than your house does...

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meic
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby meic » 20 Oct 2017, 4:44pm

it would belong to you


I dont particularly want to have a car as an asset but I certainly dont want one as a liability.
Having a new expensive car (leased or otherwise) is a liability. A simple bit of cosmetic damage which could be totally ignored on my old banger will incur a repair bill which is higher than the cost of my old banger. If you own it outright, you could just accept a lower resale value but with the lease car that repair bill will have to be paid and I suspect you are forced to use a selected, severely overpriced repair shop.
Yma o Hyd

pete75
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby pete75 » 20 Oct 2017, 4:51pm

old_windbag wrote: Every person of working age and above a threshold level should pay for council services, not just the homeowner. This would lower the cost for all in a pro rata manner. A fairer system by far as anyone can access libraries, leisure centres etc and should make a payment for such. Not against funding councils but in a fairer manner and better service provision.



That was tried - remember the poll tax. Worst mistake the Thatcher government made.

old_windbag
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby old_windbag » 20 Oct 2017, 4:53pm

Mick F wrote:£200 a month would buy a very good used car using a personal loan from your bank.


From driving the car off the forecourt, it would belong to you ............ not the bank, and not to any financial company on HP or PCP.


Unfortunately it belongs to the bank or finance company. Also if you buy a car with outstanding finance you may be liable for that, hence the checks you pay for, stolen, outstanding finance blah blah.

Just as mortgage provider has first charge on your house.

Psamathe
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Psamathe » 20 Oct 2017, 4:59pm

Mick F wrote:Never had HP or would never consider a PCP or "finance" to buy anything.
We've had mortgages for houses of course, and we've had bank personal loans for cars.

I remember something on TV a few months ago about some of these car finance schemes. I can't remember the particular scheme (I don't understand them as I don't consider them) but it was a commonly used one (presented as the one most people use) and it was apparently quite a shock for those using it at the end of the term when they thought they could just hand the car back - instead of which the finance companies go over it with a fine tooth-comb and find all sorts of "trivia" they class as beyond normal wear and tear and suddenly the deal turns out to be terrible for the person that took it out.

To me, at the end of the day a car costs money. If you pay that money then ... done. If you borrow that money (through all sorts of weird schemes) then the manufacturer still needs to be paid and the finance company needs to make their profit and the only source of that money is "you". None of these "scheming" systems are giving away money and none of the manufacturers are giving away cars. At the end of the "term" finance companies cannot sell the car for more than it is worth. So you pay up-front or you borrow and pay more than the cost.

Ian

old_windbag
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby old_windbag » 20 Oct 2017, 5:01pm

pete75 wrote:
That was tried - remember the poll tax. Worst mistake the Thatcher government made.


Yes it was but i think it wasn't done in the manner it should have been. I remember the riots and students complaining. But i've also had people say "that would cost me more, i have a son and daughter at home". They as the parent took it that it was their responsibilty to pay for their working offsprings payments :roll:. Why would you think like that, but there must be many working offspring who expect parents to feed and clothe them even when earning their own wage. You have to stand on your own feet even if living at home. But not all share that view.

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Mick F
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Mick F » 20 Oct 2017, 5:04pm

Nope.
When we had personal loans, that what they were, personal.

The bank was investing in YOU with your income and banking history.
You didn't have a loan for a car, you just had a loan.
If you couldn't repay, they wouldn't/couldn't confiscate your car, they would confiscate - or try to - confiscate your assets.
If you had a loan for a car, they don't know if you've sold it before paying the loan off. There's no agreement on the car, just the loan.
They don't even want the registration number.

............. or that's the way it was when we last had a personal loan.

Mortgages are totally different things.
Mick F. Cornwall

tatanab
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby tatanab » 20 Oct 2017, 5:45pm

Mick F wrote:............. or that's the way it was when we last had a personal loan.
I had bank loans in the very late 70s and early 80s. The bank would ask what you were buying, and if it was a car then you could only borrow something like 70% of the cost. You are right that the bank never asked for vehicle details. I had no savings, so if I was buying a car at £500 I'd tell them it was £700 so that they would loan me what I really needed.

New cars these days -- I think people get to whatever they think is a comfortable level of monthly payment. So instead of breathing a sigh of relief when the last payment is made they simply maintain that debt by replacing the car. I don't understand the logic of "needing" a large vehicle because once a year it is crammed. In that case I would have a smaller/cheaper vehicle which is adequate for 99% of my needs and then rent a larger one for that odd occasion. Years and years ago I worked in the USA with a chap who had an enormous pickup that did less than 10mpg (US gallon so about 12 to the UK gallon). He said that as a householder he expected to be able to haul sheets of plasterboard and so on. When asked how often he did this he went quiet and said "I never have".

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bovlomov
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby bovlomov » 20 Oct 2017, 5:48pm

old_windbag wrote:
pete75 wrote:
That was tried - remember the poll tax. Worst mistake the Thatcher government made.


Yes it was but i think it wasn't done in the manner it should have been. I remember the riots and students complaining. But i've also had people say "that would cost me more, i have a son and daughter at home".

Two hypothetical examples were cited by ministers to justify the poll tax: an old lady living alone in a mansion, and seven yuppies living in a one bedroom flat (I exaggerate a bit). Look how unfair it is that her rates are ten times what they pay between them!

I think that showed the paucity of evidence to support the new tax. Regarding the old lady: either you could take the view that she was sitting on a huge asset, and she could have sold or mortgaged it to pay her tax; or you could subsidise her lone status within the current system. Regarding the yuppies: I doubt many such wealthy people ever lived in multiple-occupancy, and if they did it wasn't such a dreadful injustice that they were paying low rates. Presumably, as they were in such cramped conditions, they had no children using services.

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hondated
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby hondated » 20 Oct 2017, 6:20pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:It's certainly the case that the car industry is pretty adept at applying the green spin. My advice to anybody believing that any internal combustion engine is environmentally friendly is to run a pipe from the exhaust into the car through a window and drive around like that.

I had a neighbour that did that, it did turn him "green"!

If I have read that correctly, given I had a mate do the same thing, that really is in bad humour.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby PDQ Mobile » 20 Oct 2017, 6:25pm

hondated wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:It's certainly the case that the car industry is pretty adept at applying the green spin. My advice to anybody believing that any internal combustion engine is environmentally friendly is to run a pipe from the exhaust into the car through a window and drive around like that.

I had a neighbour that did that, it did turn him "green"!

If I have read that correctly, given I had a mate do the same thing, that really is in bad humour.

Sorry!
It was all made up!
The word play is on the word "green"!

Just tried to add a little humour to TCs pointed post.
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 20 Oct 2017, 7:58pm, edited 1 time in total.

thirdcrank
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Oct 2017, 6:34pm

Bonefishblues wrote:PCPs keep car values up, since people don't negotiate over the car's price, they're fixated by the monthly repayment. Bubble alert...


They certainly keep new car prices up, but I'm not so sure about values. I fancy that there are so many cars coming onto the market after being subject to a PCP deal that second hand prices must be pushed down through over-supply.

I think there's a lot of obfuscation over PCP, such as making it sound just like the leasing deals that companies use to finance their fleets. I've recently had somebody trying to convince me that PCP was just the thing. The last time this happened, some three years ago, I just couldn't understand the babble. "At the end of three years you can just walk away or use the equity you have built up ...."

This time, I had the figures in front of me. In round numbers, I could pay £17,000 over three years and then my options included returning the car and "walking away." However, for £16,000 cash I could buy the car outright so at the end of three years I could torch it and still be in front. I know there's a loss of interest on the cash, but that's insignificant these days.

Also, there are all manner of insurance "products" on offer, tailored for anybody who is concerned about the costs of putting minor damage right. (They do say "cosmetic" damage, but that word means "making more beautiful" rather than minor or trivial.) There's alloy wheel insurance, which covers eighteen (18) claims in three years for wheels scuffed; tyre insurance; and "Gap" insurance.

The last takes some thick-skinned selling, since it involves explaining to the punter (valued customer) that over a three year period a new car's value will plummet, especially when they drive it away from the showroom but by paying again for cover, they are sheltered from that depreciation if they crash it (but not otherwise.)

Tacked onto the "easily managed monthly payments," the sums sound insignificant, but x 36, it's megabucks.

The real attraction here is that if your biggest priority is to have a new car on the drive every three years or so, you can do it without much capital if you are indifferent to overall cost (or cannot add up or understand %ages.)