Diesel scrappage

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Bonefishblues
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Bonefishblues » 20 Oct 2017, 7:20pm

thirdcrank wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:PCPs keep car values up, since people don't negotiate over the car's price, they're fixated by the monthly repayment. Bubble alert...


They certainly keep new car prices up, but I'm not so sure about values. I fancy that there are so many cars coming onto the market after being subject to a PCP deal that second hand prices must be pushed down through over-supply.


Loose language on my behalf, agreed. Interesting article about the state of play:

https://www.ft.com/content/d340ea28-504 ... 9?mhq5j=e5

Mark R
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Mark R » 20 Oct 2017, 9:45pm

These Diesel scrappage schemes are just a cynical ploy to sell more motors.

If the Government wants gross polluting older diesels off the road (lets hope they actually do..) they should just offer up the cash with no strings attached. £1000 for any 8+ year old oil burner would get plenty of the worst polluters gone in a very short space of time. It would be expensive but so would doing nothing

There shouldn't be any of this 'voucher off the price of a new car' nonsense. The Tories claim the be the party of the free market - why don't they trust people to spend the cash as they see fit? I guess their corporate donors wouldn't stand for it.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Bonefishblues » 20 Oct 2017, 10:00pm

I don't think £1K would do it. Well, based on a sample of 1, anyway!

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bigjim
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby bigjim » 21 Oct 2017, 11:10am

Isn't the idea of these scrappage schemes just shifting the pollution from our back yard into somebody else's. Plus creating more pollution. Wherever these new vehicles are made their pollution levels will go up. The scrapped vehicles will have to be transported, then broken down, the metal then resmelted to make new metal for the new vehicles. All sounds pretty polluting to me.
Nothing left to prove.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Cunobelin » 21 Oct 2017, 11:50am

pwa wrote:Some of those slightly older diesels are less polluting than more recent ones in real life conditions, though they come out worse on the misleading EU test.

I don't like the scrappage idea. The reason is it puts money in the pockets of people who don't need it. People who are in the market for a new car.


Recent article put the emissions from a new Qashquai as some 18 times the pollution than the new limit

Some older petrol cars also emit more emissions that diesels


What the scrappage schemes are doing very successfully is pointing the finger at Diesels and managing to avoid all of the real issues about vehicle use and managing ALL of combustion engines

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Mick F
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Mick F » 21 Oct 2017, 12:21pm

Cunobelin wrote:Recent article put the emissions from a new Qashquai as some 18 times the pollution than the new limit
Some older petrol cars also emit more emissions that diesels

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt ... ar_exhaust
But the worst is the Nissan Qashqai, which last month overtook the Ford Fiesta to become the UK's most registered car (counting diesel and petrol models together).
The Qashqai N-Connecta DCI CVT (1598cc) produces 1.46g of NOx per kilometre. That is more than 18 times Europe's 0.08g/km limit.


This is a good website.
http://equaindex.com/equa-fuel-economy-index/
Mick F. Cornwall

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Cunobelin
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Cunobelin » 21 Oct 2017, 2:16pm

To me this epitomizes the cynical and devious propaganda that is being used to demonize a small group of vehicles rather than deal with the real issues

Given the knowledge we have and (if the will to deal with the issues was really there) why is the Qashauai and it’s peers not banned from sale?

old_windbag
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby old_windbag » 21 Oct 2017, 2:24pm

Because it would cause job losses in sunderland and you'd have angry northerners parading on number 10 in bare feet and raggy clothes.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Bonefishblues » 21 Oct 2017, 2:49pm

Because under the prevailing rules they have been tested and shown to be compliant.

pwa
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby pwa » 21 Oct 2017, 3:08pm

Bonefishblues wrote:Because under the prevailing rules they have been tested and shown to be compliant.


Exactly. The farcical EU testing. It is wrong to blame manufacturers for simply making cars that get through the tests. It is the tests that are at fault.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Bonefishblues » 21 Oct 2017, 4:06pm

Exactly indeed.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Cunobelin » 21 Oct 2017, 6:18pm

Yet it is accepted?

There is a simple answer .... ban all the Qashqais and others that are known to be over the limit from Cities and urban areas

Bonefishblues
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Bonefishblues » 21 Oct 2017, 7:07pm

Cunobelin wrote:Yet it is accepted?

There is a simple answer .... ban all the Qashqais and others that are known to be over the limit from Cities and urban areas

They are legal. They passed the test. There are no grounds.

Again, it's a flawed testing regime.

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meic
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby meic » 22 Oct 2017, 12:34am

They are legal. They passed the test. There are no grounds.


So is my thirteen year old Passat but if it was to enter the London clean air zone it would invite a £10 charge on the basis of its emissions. Just like the Quashi owner I didnt buy it to pollute but as it does so, then it is attracts a £10 charge to discourage its use in a heavily polluted area, no reason why the same rules should not apply to discourage any other car car that pollutes just as much (if not more).
Yma o Hyd

Bonefishblues
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Re: Diesel scrappage

Postby Bonefishblues » 22 Oct 2017, 8:38am

I'm not disagreeing, but the whole testing regime will need a complete overhaul to be more in line with the type of testing done by the Stokenchurch outfit that tested the cars in the article - and robustly replicable in a way that theirs isn't*.

...and even then, manufacturers would, of course, develop to meet that test in particular, just as they have this one.

*I'm not saying it's inaccurate, rather that if billions of squids are riding on it, it simply has to be demonstrably fair and equal to all, otherwise we'd end up in a litigation-fest.