Minimum Standard of Living

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brynpoeth
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby brynpoeth » 8 Dec 2017, 11:42am

old_windbag wrote:
al_yrpal wrote: there are 4 bedrooms


Unfortunately this has become the standard for describing houses in this country( perhaps others too ). They are merely rooms in reality but described as bedrooms. I would in theory under occupy my house( but I haven't added to the population either so no extra houses needed there ), but I don't as I sleep in one room, use another for fitness equipment and another as a study/office. All the other rooms are used for their function as described i.e. kitchen. But it's become the standard way to describe houses :( .

I'd not want to live with anybody as I like my space to be mine. Which may not bode well for the future should I be forced into communal living, I think an overdose of heroine may be my only option at that point.


In Germany the size of a dwelling is given in square meters, that makes more sense I think
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kwackers
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby kwackers » 8 Dec 2017, 11:47am

Stevek76 wrote:Sunk costs as in that was 11 years ago and doesn't really impact my day to day finances now, if I were to spread it out the cost of it would be around £500 a year extra, though reducing the longer I keep it.

Depreciation is only a factor if you intend selling.
As far as I am concerned I buy the car and run it until it dies. The cost is the initial outlay (or monthly finance) once it's paid for the rest is free.

old_windbag
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby old_windbag » 8 Dec 2017, 11:58am

brynpoeth wrote:In Germany the size of a dwelling is given in square meters, that makes more sense I think


To some extent yes it does. It's more like how business/office space is sold by area rather than how many offices it will be divided into.

Kwackers likes bungalows which are nice but then we have the increased surface area. As someone who thinks englands population should be 10-20million max then that would work fine for all of us. But we all know developments are getting more cramped and upwards( high rises ) is more likely the way to go due to our overpopulation.

I think in more spaced out countries such as US, Australia, NZ( even scotland, ireland ) bungalow style is more common.

Vorpal
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby Vorpal » 8 Dec 2017, 12:44pm

I think that selling a house based solely on number of bedrooms is stupid. All it does is encourage developers to squeeze as many bedrooms into a house as possible, so you end up with a 3 metre X 3 metre master bedroom that has no built-in wardrobe, and no place to put one because there's one door for the 'en suite' and another for the entrance to the room, and a large window. And all the other bedrooms are even smaller.

Apartments, multi-family houses, and housing blocks are much more common in many other countries than the UK. IMO, among the reasons it is so difficult to get on the property ladder in the UK are:
-everyone believes they need to own a detached house
-few multi-unit houses and buildings are built with families in mind

So, a single person or a couple trying to get onto the property ladder can buy an apartment, but a family cannot, at least not easily outside of London. If they do find an apartment big enough, it is unlikely to include family amenities such as a playground. There may not be ground floor storage for buggies or prams, or a lift to take them to the 1st floor, etc.

In every other European country I have been in, apartment buildings and multi-family houses are built, at least in some part, with families in mind. In the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway and other countries, apartment buildings, multi-family houses, and even detached and semi-detached units are often built around a common play area, so that children can go out and play independently from a young age at varying levels of supervision. In Germany and Italy, most apartment complexes have a variety of units, ranging from 25 square metre studio apartments to a 250 square metre 4 bedroom apartments.
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Ruadh495
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby Ruadh495 » 8 Dec 2017, 1:11pm

One of the big problems in the UK (IMO) is that rents are so high, and so much higher than mortgage costs. That's partly down to low interest rates, but also due to landlords being speculative investors who are themselves borrowing most of the capital. So the rent has to cover the mortgage plus landlord's profit. I believe the market rent has to be the mortgage repayment plus 30% before a buy-to-let mortgage will be considered?

That makes it significantly cheaper to "own" (mortgaged) a property than to rent one (assuming you can come up with the deposit). High rents compared to wages make it impossible for renters to save a deposit, so they can't avoid renting and rents can rise without restriction.

If only there were a socially minded "landlord" that people could rent property from at a reasonable rate. The government perhaps, or maybe local authorities...

old_windbag
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby old_windbag » 8 Dec 2017, 1:34pm

Vorpal wrote:everyone believes they need to own a detached house


But all houses should be detached and our population should be very small and sustainable. Hey our iron age forebears even had detached round houses :) .

I have a detached house( to match my detached mentality :wink: ). I think for anyone out there who has lived with antisocial hi-fi music and all night parties,and all this through the walls of 4 properties! would understand. I could even hear next door stirring their tea in the cup, this was witnessed by another person who couldn't believe it, then there was sex and toilet use! When it comes to anti-social noise it isn't easy to stop perpetrators as it involves diaries, time keeping blah blah and really unnecessary steps, the victims have to do all the work. When people are in that predicament( as I was ) I can wholly understand manslaughter as it does push you to the edge. No one should have to live with someone else's antisocial behaviour, this is why I advocate sensible population levels and spaced out properties. For those who wish to live as "extended families" or on top of each other then those styles of property can exist in parallel. Part of the above issues come from cheap built modern homes..... but many of us couldn't afford any better. There are no standards set for sound transmission in house building. Detached was my only option.

We all have a different view of what constitutes "quality of life" but for myself human anti-social behaviour is not part of that nor is being surrounded by screaming babies and their mothers. Living cheek by jowl with nature is, too many humans simply get in the way of that.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby al_yrpal » 8 Dec 2017, 2:17pm

I bought our Cornish Cottage in 1997, it was going to be our holiday home, it was falling apart and no one wanted it. The Woolwich were falling over themselves to lend us a bit of the money to buy it and persuaded us to swap our main home mortgage which only had two years to run to them. I was astounded. Interest rates were crap and about 1999 I noticed that wealthy people were starting to get buy to lets to get a decent return on their cash. After a couple of years Joe Public got the message and people piled in on BTL like no tomorrow. We sold out after 10 years and the now restored cottage went to a young family. Over that 10 years and the following 10 years loads of homes to buy disappeared, the population increased by st least 2 1/2 million and rents got racked up.

All this has produced the housing crisis snd much poverty and unhappiness. Ultra low interest rates and the piffling returns on cash savings have a lot to answer for.

Al
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brynpoeth
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby brynpoeth » 8 Dec 2017, 2:58pm

There is a good solution for older people with houses that are too big: take in a young person (student or refugee maybe), just charge them for energy use, maybe a token rent, they help with shopping and keep an eye on things, both sides benefit

Like *primitive* societies where several generations lived together
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thirdcrank
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby thirdcrank » 8 Dec 2017, 3:02pm

Interest rates, low or high aren't some form of alien life but rather the result of policy decisions. We've allegedly beaten inflation, the traditional way of reducing the cost of debt so we've gone for money-printing and virtually interest-free credit (not available to everybody, of course.)

PS I don't really think we've beaten inflation at all: we've just bottled it up for a while.

old_windbag
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby old_windbag » 8 Dec 2017, 3:10pm

brynpoeth wrote:There is a good solution for older people with houses that are too big: take in a young person (student or refugee maybe)


If people wanted to do that they would. But it's only a suitable solution to those who want to live with someone invading their space. Married people with or without kids are used to that so perhaps applicable to their situation in older years. But many people choose to live on their own for good reason, freedom and peace and quiet being one or two amongst many.

francovendee
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby francovendee » 8 Dec 2017, 3:14pm

Judging by friends, quite a number of landlords have become so directly as a result not getting a decent return on savings. Two people have told me that as soon as interest rates on savings reach a realistic level they plan to sell their properties and put the money back into savings. Neither had to have a buy to let mortgage by the way.
I think low interest rates have encouraged the rising house price market as it's never been so cheap to borrow.

old_windbag
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby old_windbag » 8 Dec 2017, 3:23pm

francovendee wrote:I think low interest rates have encouraged the rising house price market as it's never been so cheap to borrow.


Also now to be exacerbated by access to full pension funds at 55+.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 8 Dec 2017, 5:45pm

Hi,
Stevek76 wrote:Personally, if/when my car bites the dust my current usage doesn't really justify the cost of a new one and I'll have a serious look at car clubs etc.


Its not hard to work out, but occasional one day a week use and a taxis / hire car would for a lot of people be cheaper.

For me 3-4 k miles a year might work out at up to £3K, but now both my vehicles are over the hill means about 50p a mile thereabouts.
And I work on my cars too, if not the add some.

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/car/car-cost ... z50h0JdZkF
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softlips
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby softlips » 8 Dec 2017, 6:24pm

francovendee wrote:Judging by friends, quite a number of landlords have become so directly as a result not getting a decent return on savings. Two people have told me that as soon as interest rates on savings reach a realistic level they plan to sell their properties and put the money back into savings. Neither had to have a buy to let mortgage by the way.
I think low interest rates have encouraged the rising house price market as it's never been so cheap to borrow.



Well invested funds usually beat buy to let property as an investment. Once you factor in the odd month the property is empty and repairs then the returns aren't so good for most. Although, with buy to let the return may be leveredged as money is borrowed to invest.

I've been tempered by buy to let a few times but have little desire to be a landlord.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Minimum Standard of Living

Postby al_yrpal » 8 Dec 2017, 7:40pm

Could have easily have let my Cornish house instead of selling it but didnt want the hassle. Its easy to get more than 4% dividends tax free if you are a basic rate taxpayer and some capital growth too which can be protected tax free in ISAs. But..too many people are frightened to risk stockmarket investments and choose to be landlords instead. A lifetime of saving small amounts pays off.

Al
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