Is Trump Mad?

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Is Trump Mad?

yes
93
65%
no
36
25%
maybe
8
6%
maybe not
3
2%
dont know
3
2%
 
Total votes: 143

reohn2
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by reohn2 »

Vorpal wrote:I don't think that insulting his followers helps. I have some friends and family members who are followers, and I have to admit that I am not comfortable with someone who follows Trump. Not because I think they are stupid (they aren't), but because of what he says and does and represents. What I do think is that many of his followers are unwilling to examine their own privilege and racism. Most have lived with it all of their lives and don't recognise themselves in the behaviour that others describe. They also believe that the press inaccurately portray Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/568147/

That seems pretty thick and stupid to me,there is non so blind as them that will not see.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by Bonefishblues »

reohn2 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:I don't think that insulting his followers helps. I have some friends and family members who are followers, and I have to admit that I am not comfortable with someone who follows Trump. Not because I think they are stupid (they aren't), but because of what he says and does and represents. What I do think is that many of his followers are unwilling to examine their own privilege and racism. Most have lived with it all of their lives and don't recognise themselves in the behaviour that others describe. They also believe that the press inaccurately portray Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/568147/

That seems pretty thick and stupid to me,there is non so blind as them that will not see.

Then I think that you are looking rather superficially at this. I'd advise a course of curiosity.
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by Vorpal »

reohn2 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:I don't think that insulting his followers helps. I have some friends and family members who are followers, and I have to admit that I am not comfortable with someone who follows Trump. Not because I think they are stupid (they aren't), but because of what he says and does and represents. What I do think is that many of his followers are unwilling to examine their own privilege and racism. Most have lived with it all of their lives and don't recognise themselves in the behaviour that others describe. They also believe that the press inaccurately portray Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/568147/

That seems pretty thick and stupid to me,there is non so blind as them that will not see.

I think they have just never been in circumstances that forced them to look at themselves. The Trump supporter that I am closest to is a family member (not immediate) that I interact with at family gatherings, and sometimes on social media. He lives in a Midwestern Town that is 95% white, and he has been middle / upper middle class all of his life. He thinks that being friendly with his black colleagues means he's not racist, and nothing I can tell him will shift that opinion. He also thinks that it would be good if there were some women or minorities in his all-middle-aged-white-male engineering department, but doesn't think that they should get any special treatment to get them there. Because they 'have the same opportunity' as him. He will acknowledge that it's good to 'encourage' women and minorities to pursue technical careers, and concedes that it's okay if organisations such as the Society of Women Engineers offer scholarships to just women, though he doesn't seem entirely comfortable with the idea.

When it comes to Trump, most of the negative stuff published about him is either 'that was a long time ago', or 'fake news'. He produces as 'evidence' stuff from websites with a poor a track record for accuracy and seems unable to be critical of them. IMO, he was never taught any form of critical/logical thinking outside of mathematics and engineering, and consequently determines what is or is not 'fake news' mainly by what matches his world view.

I have tried to get him to approach politics and social things like an engineering problem to be solved, but he just says it's completely different because it involves people's emotions, and that's that. He not too good with emotional stuff, etiher, but I guess that's to be expected. And it's not so unusal, either. I mean our parents, aunts, and uncles, etc. were sent to school and told not cry the day their grandmother died because that's just how things were, then. There was work to do, farms to be seen to, and the Protestant work ethic to uphold.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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661-Pete
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by 661-Pete »

Vorpal wrote:He produces as 'evidence' stuff from websites with a poor a track record for accuracy and seems unable to be critical of them.
That's the crux of the matter, I think. All through history (well - history ever since we had newspapers, that is) people have been induced to swallow the Big Lie because "it must be true, it says it in the papers..."

Sorry - couldn't help myself: I just had to yet again post a link to that song. :D Perhaps you should get your Midwestern family member to watch it - although he'd no doubt dismiss it as 'fake news' in itself.....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Cunobelin
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by Cunobelin »

Vorpal wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I think Trump made a huge error with his comments about McCain's military record.

I doubt that it was an error.



Whether the original insults were intended or not, the way it has backfired on him makes it an error
reohn2
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by reohn2 »

Bonefishblues wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:I don't think that insulting his followers helps. I have some friends and family members who are followers, and I have to admit that I am not comfortable with someone who follows Trump. Not because I think they are stupid (they aren't), but because of what he says and does and represents. What I do think is that many of his followers are unwilling to examine their own privilege and racism. Most have lived with it all of their lives and don't recognise themselves in the behaviour that others describe. They also believe that the press inaccurately portray Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/568147/

That seems pretty thick and stupid to me,there is non so blind as them that will not see.

Then I think that you are looking rather superficially at this. I'd advise a course of curiosity.

Oh pleeze don't.
I've come to the conclusion I hold by looking into this moron's life and business career.
The people who follow his lead are stupid if they think this man is a worthy leader of the USA.I can understand the protest vote but for people to carry on belieiving in this man is stupid and an outright denial of what is staring them in the face which they follow his lead in terming it all as "fake news".
He is overtly racist,misogynistic,anti gay and anti abortion and a bombastic bully to boot,who cant even be true to his own wife,and with conections to the mafia as well as being an overt liar and worst of all he's the most powerful man in the world presently.He's a sick rich creep of the worst kind,out of the same mold as Putin.
As I posted previously,"there are non so blind as them that will not see",more fool them.
YVMV mine won't.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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meic
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by meic »

and consequently determines what is or is not 'fake news' mainly by what matches his world view.

and who doesnt?
It is just more obvious when others do it.
Yma o Hyd
Vorpal
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by Vorpal »

Cunobelin wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I think Trump made a huge error with his comments about McCain's military record.

I doubt that it was an error.



Whether the original insults were intended or not, the way it has backfired on him makes it an error

I think he welcomes the furore.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
reohn2
Posts: 45181
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by reohn2 »

661-Pete wrote:
Vorpal wrote:He produces as 'evidence' stuff from websites with a poor a track record for accuracy and seems unable to be critical of them.
That's the crux of the matter, I think. All through history (well - history ever since we had newspapers, that is) people have been induced to swallow the Big Lie because "it must be true, it says it in the papers..."

Sorry - couldn't help myself: I just had to yet again post a link to that song. :D Perhaps you should get your Midwestern family member to watch it - although he'd no doubt dismiss it as 'fake news' in itself.....

If only people would learn to read inbetween the lines and not swallow the hook line and sinker it wouldnt be so painful when they try to cough it up........
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by reohn2 »

Vorpal wrote:I think he welcomes the furore.

I think you're spot on,does that not say something about him and the people who follow his every word?
They want upheaval,violence and madness,they think it the only way to progress,they're of the "he who has most toys wins" belief!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Bonefishblues
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by Bonefishblues »

reohn2 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
reohn2 wrote:That seems pretty thick and stupid to me,there is non so blind as them that will not see.

Then I think that you are looking rather superficially at this. I'd advise a course of curiosity.

Oh pleeze don't.
I've come to the conclusion I hold by looking into this moron's life and business career.
The people who follow his lead are stupid if they think this man is a worthy leader of the USA.I can understand the protest vote but for people to carry on belieiving in this man is stupid and an outright denial of what is staring them in the face which they follow his lead in terming it all as "fake news".
He is overtly racist,misogynistic,anti gay and anti abortion and a bombastic bully to boot,who cant even be true to his own wife,and with conections to the mafia as well as being an overt liar and worst of all he's the most powerful man in the world presently.He's a sick rich creep of the worst kind,out of the same mold as Putin.
As I posted previously,"there are non so blind as them that will not see",more fool them.
YVMV mine won't.

62.98 million people.

Too many to dismiss as you do.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by Bonefishblues »

Vorpal wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
Vorpal wrote:I doubt that it was an error.



Whether the original insults were intended or not, the way it has backfired on him makes it an error

I think he welcomes the furore.

From the little I know the one thing that is deeply unwise in the USA is to impugn a war veteran, and doubly so when one so very obviously avoided the draft. Even for Trump that's a step too far. He really believes that he can say or do anything and it will be fine. I think he will be proved wrong - I have more faith in the fundamental decency of those who chose to vote for him than perhaps others do.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by Bonefishblues »

reohn2 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:I think he welcomes the furore.

I think you're spot on,does that not say something about him and the people who follow his every word?
They want upheaval,violence and madness,they think it the only way to progress,they're of the "he who has most toys wins" belief!

No, I think that's far from what they want, other than a tiny tiny minority (Charlottesville 2 attracted a couple of dozen this time round, I note).
reohn2
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by reohn2 »

Boney
We'll have to agree to differ.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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Mistik-ka
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Post by Mistik-ka »

Bonefishblues wrote: …Even for Trump that's a step too far. He really believes that he can say or do anything and it will be fine. I think he will be proved wrong - I have more faith in the fundamental decency of those who chose to vote for him than perhaps others do.

If you can stomach 49 seconds of it, here is Donald Trump's view of the loyalty of 'his' supporters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA

It includes his famous (or infamous, depending on your point of view) observation, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters."
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