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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 10:57am
by Vorpal
Pebble wrote:
reohn2 wrote:@Pebble
Trump played it like BoJo played it,initially denying it's seriousness and ferocity and allowing people entry into the country without isolation thereg0bye increasingnthe spread.
In the case of Trump carried on denying it's impact.The only thing that'll make this man aware of it's effect on humanity is by him becoming seriously ill and leaving him disabled in some way,even then he'll attempt to blame someone else.
Only last week was he claiming it was nothing to beconcerned about as it only affected the old....

The opportunity was squandered at the beginning of the the year when people were allowed in from all over the globe,bpth in the US and UK,the moronic attitude by Trump and BoJo is self evident and in the case of the UK the lack of action on and the burying of the Cygnus report has led to many needless deaths.
Look at the countries who took immediate action against the virus,the impact on their health and economies have been minimised,it's the countries with moronic leadership UK,US,Brazil,etc who are suffering the worst in this pandemic

Do you think it is down to the leaders or is it more to do with the natural way a population behaves ?

The countries that have fared badly seem to be the ones who tend not to follow rules when they don't agree with them, UK France Italy Spain US have never been sticklers to the letter of the law and the virus is running like wildfire. On the other hand Oriental countries who seem to have much greater respect for each other seem to have got it under control. Interestingly Germany seems to have done so well, and they do like compliance with rules in Germany, for example; try crossing a road before the green light shows, other pedestrians are likely to rebuke you off even if there are no moving vehicles in sight.

As for the leaders, a good example is the UK, Nicola Sturgeon is well thought of her throughout the UK for her clear thinking, caring, compassion and decisive decisions surrounding the virus - but Scotland is not fairing any better than England, the scottish people have the same attitude to rules as the rest of the UK and are suffering equally with the pandemic.


While there are certainly cultural influences, the differences between Nordic countries amply demonstrate that there is more to it than that.

Also, New Zealand is not so different culturally than the UK or the US, but they don't seem to have had any problems controlling Covid.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 11:00am
by Jdsk
Pebble wrote:As for the leaders, a good example is the UK, Nicola Sturgeon is well thought of her throughout the UK for her clear thinking, caring, compassion and decisive decisions surrounding the virus - but Scotland is not fairing (sic) any better than England, the scottish people have the same attitude to rules as the rest of the UK and are suffering equally with the pandemic.

You didn't quite say it, but it has been observed that countries with female leaders seem to be doing well.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2020/04/13/what-do-countries-with-the-best-coronavirus-reponses-have-in-common-women-leaders/#43d29a413dec
but
https://www.wired.com/story/what-the-da ... -pandemic/

There's a serious attempt at studying different reactions to the outbreak that doesn't depend on national stereotypes or any type of gender bias:
"The Oxford COVID-19 Government Response Tracker"
https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/research/resea ... se-tracker

Jonathan

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 11:02am
by Jdsk
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 2:42pm
by pete75
Tangled Metal wrote:I'm not equating anything in terms of impact only that it's still avoidance / evasion with the same root cause behind it to keep more if what is yours. I am not the one making specific value judgements. Are you saying that pensions are being used purely to save money? They're being used as a tax efficient way of saving money. Tax efficiency is avoidance. If I'm equating anything it's the greed aspect that isn't related to the amount concerned or who is involved which I'll leave to you to discourse on.

Reducing one's tax bill is greed no matter how much is involved or how you go about it. Taxation is for the greater good I'm sure you'll agree so does that make any tax avoidance wrong?


No I'm saying ISAs are used purely to save money. As I said the tax concessions on pensions are to encourage desirable behaviour and, presumably, will save taxpayer money as those who pay into them will not be reliant on the taxpayer to keep them in their old age. There's also the point that while the money isn't taxed when paid into the scheme but is taxed when it's taken out. In the case of my own pension I received relief when putting the money in and now I'm in receipt I'm paying over £4,000 a year tax on it. I'm paying more tax on receipt of my pension than I received in tax concessions paying into it. The taxman is making a profit from my pension. Pension tax relief isn't tax avoidance it's more like deferred payment. There's a whole world of difference between this and wealthy individuals using various offshore schemes to avoid tax.

My wife has a business and someone we know and who thinks like you was accusing her of tax avoidance because she puts things like office running costs, equipment costs, staff wages etc against her tax bill and only pays tax on the amount she has left after paying these necessary expenses.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 5:23pm
by reohn2
Pebble wrote:Do you think it is down to the leaders or is it more to do with the natural way a population behaves ?.......


It's both.The leaders are capable of imposing travel restrictions from outside the country and implementing tighter test and trace on those entering which is what most of the countries with low rates did initially but as Vorpal says it's more complicated than simply that.
One thing's for sure though,the UK's actions to minimise the virus from outside the country was waaayyyyy to late and waaayyyy too lax and still is FTM.
We're now seeing a second wave due to people suffering from "lockdown fatigue" and,sadly predominently the younger generations are spreading it fastest of all.

I've just learned that my Diabetic 49 year old SinL has tested positive and isn't very well at all ATM.
I do hope he's OK as a nicer man you couldn't wish to meet,though the virus is no respecter of personality .

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 6:16pm
by Oldjohnw
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't one of Trump's drugs (Regeneron?) made from stem cells? So presumably the religious right will now have to vote against him.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 10:54pm
by pete75
Oldjohnw wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but isn't one of Trump's drugs (Regeneron?) made from stem cells? So presumably the religious right will now have to vote against him.

Regeneron is the name of a pharmaceutical company not a drug. Presumably he was give something made by them.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Oct 2020, 12:45am
by kylecycler
pete75 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but isn't one of Trump's drugs (Regeneron?) made from stem cells? So presumably the religious right will now have to vote against him.

Regeneron is the name of a pharmaceutical company not a drug. Presumably he was given something made by them.

Here you go:

The emergency antibody that Trump received last week was developed with the use of a cell line originally derived from abortion tissue, according to Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, the company that developed the experimental drug.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/1 ... -abortion/

Anyway, he's now trying to hawk it (the actual footage is taken from a genuine video he did yesterday, without alteration as such)...



Previous Trump intitiatives/prototypes such as bleach, internal light therapy and hydroxychloroquine were strangled at birth.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Oct 2020, 2:33am
by Oldjohnw
Thanks. Makes you think.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Oct 2020, 10:12am
by pete75
Oldjohnw wrote:Thanks. Makes you think.


Probably has a financial interest or connections with the company.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Oct 2020, 10:54am
by DaveP
pete75 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Thanks. Makes you think.


Probably has a financial interest or connections with the company.


While he might be shrewd enough to add up a bunch profits and end up with a tax loss,he's never really seemed quite up to joined up thinking. Plugging a treatment derived from research using cells derived from an abortion 20 odd years ago in the context of a following who are both fundamentalist and Prolife would be an example.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Oct 2020, 12:45pm
by kylecycler
DaveP wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Thanks. Makes you think.


Probably has a financial interest or connections with the company.


While he might be shrewd enough to add up a bunch profits and end up with a tax loss, he's never really seemed quite up to joined up thinking. Plugging a treatment derived from research using cells derived from an abortion 20 odd years ago in the context of a following who are both fundamentalist and Prolife would be an example.

Plenty such examples, Dave, as you know. Trump may or may not be a good con-man but he's a terrible politician, and right now his judgement seems catastrophically impaired by whatever medication - steroids, apparently - he's on for the coronavirus - his tweets the past couple of days have been off-the-scale crazy - downright certifiable - even for him.

25th Amendment is being looked at - watch the news today. Don't think that will happen but I wouldn't put money on him even making it as far as the election, one way or another.

He'll either go down with the virus - he's not out of the woods yet, in spite of how he's making out he's 'cured' - or as soon as he sees he's not going to be re-elected - his poll numbers look hopeless - he'll cut and run - just do what he's done all his life - make a mess, do a deal, quit and move on - that's his real 'art of the deal'.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Oct 2020, 1:28pm
by reohn2
DaveP wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Thanks. Makes you think.


Probably has a financial interest or connections with the company.


While he might be shrewd enough to add up a bunch profits and end up with a tax loss,he's never really seemed quite up to joined up thinking. Plugging a treatment derived from research using cells derived from an abortion 20 odd years ago in the context of a following who are both fundamentalist and Prolife would be an example.


The problem is that the people who he appeals to most including the Alt right and fundamentalist Bible thumpers aren't very good at joining up the dots either,the rest don't care,having only dollar signs for eyes.
Plus there's always the "fake news" mantra they follow so blindly when their orange savior(sic) is proved to be a liar and a cheat by sound news reporting.
His last ditch attempt,see I'm cured,showboating will,without doubt,cost many more American people their lives and their long term health,that's for sure.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Oct 2020, 3:00pm
by djnotts
If the bookies know best, then the Republicans' best option is that Trump and Biden unable to stand. Pence's odds shorter than Democrat's VP nomination. 15/8 for Trump - worth a few quid at that I reckon.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Oct 2020, 3:07pm
by Bonefishblues
djnotts wrote:If the bookies know best, then the Republicans' best option is that Trump and Biden unable to stand. Pence's odds shorter than Democrat's VP nomination. 15/8 for Trump - worth a few quid at that I reckon.

Remember that the bookies set odds based on the weight of money being wagered, not their view of the likely outcome, iyswim.