Is Trump Mad?

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Is Trump Mad?

yes
86
65%
no
35
26%
maybe
8
6%
maybe not
2
2%
dont know
2
2%
 
Total votes: 133

thirdcrank
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby thirdcrank » 22 Feb 2018, 3:29pm

With anything like this, it's important to see the setting. The fewer guns the safer we are is the UK approach, but there seem to be a heck of a lot of guns in private hands in the US with no likelihood of a significant reduction. Arming more of the goodies has a certain logic in those circumstances. It's no good saying "I wouldn't start from here" because he is "here."

Whatever the current protests, I fancy the majority of Americans accept the situation to the extent that many approve it. The UK population seems relatively comfortable with the numbers killed on our roads. People become inured.

Flinders
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 6:47pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Flinders » 22 Feb 2018, 3:36pm

Not sure if this has been posted earlier, but for people not wanting to give their custom to US gun makers, ammunition suppliers, or companies who support the NRA, you might want to read this before you buy cycling or other products from Giro, Camelback, Bell, and others.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/02/21/ ... gun-lobby/

Edit: you can add Bolle eyewear to that list, apparently. And Blackburn.

Edit again, list of their brands. Very depressing.
https://vistaoutdoor.com/brands/
They fund the gun lobby, but sell protective gear for cyclists and even kids. One thing their cycle helmets won't protect you from is one of their firearms customers shooting you or your kids in the head.
Last edited by Flinders on 22 Feb 2018, 3:58pm, edited 2 times in total.

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661-Pete
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby 661-Pete » 22 Feb 2018, 3:40pm

kwackers wrote:(I'm assuming here that gunmen look different to civilians with guns - perhaps they could wear a hi-vis vest with 'gunman' writ across it.)
It was so much simpler in the 'old days' - the 'bad guy' was the one in the black hat....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

reohn2
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Feb 2018, 3:42pm

661-Pete wrote:
kwackers wrote:(I'm assuming here that gunmen look different to civilians with guns - perhaps they could wear a hi-vis vest with 'gunman' writ across it.)
It was so much simpler in the 'old days' - the 'bad guy' was the one in the black hat....

Until the black hats learned to wear a white hat.......
-----------------------------------------------------------

mercalia
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby mercalia » 22 Feb 2018, 5:23pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:
661-Pete wrote:Time for an update: can anyone come up with a stronger word than 'lunacy' or 'imbecility' to account for the T's latest Great Idea?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43149694 - and many other sources.
So he wants to turn every classroom into a replica of the OK Corral?

I voted "don't know", may I change my vote now?

yes I changed it so you can and also never ending - as is Trumps nonsense

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Mick F
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Mick F » 22 Feb 2018, 5:31pm

I'm still a NO.

Not mad, just stupid and misguided. He has much support for his views ............ not that I agree with many of them.
Mick F. Cornwall

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 23 Feb 2018, 3:30pm

What do the US media make of the suggestion that teachers be armed?
Was the suggestion really made as it has been reported?

The Guardian reports that money may be made available to train and arm teachers, one wonders whether they may choose whether to take part

I do wish we had a few more US members here to provide alternative facts
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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kwackers
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby kwackers » 23 Feb 2018, 3:52pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:What do the US media make of the suggestion that teachers be armed?
Was the suggestion really made as it has been reported?

The Guardian reports that money may be made available to train and arm teachers, one wonders whether they may choose whether to take part

I do wish we had a few more US members here to provide alternative facts

Worth pointing out in some states teachers are allowed to be armed already in the classroom.

I notice the armed guard on the campus has resigned after footage showed that he didn't 'run in' and confront the gunman.

Now I don't know about you but if I had an handgun and a guy appeared with an AR15 I think running away would be the best policy. A rifle is an order of magnitude more powerful and more accurate than a handgun. By the time the handgun is within effective range you're probably dead.
A trained teacher with a handgun is ineffective at best and the first target at worst.

Vorpal
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Vorpal » 23 Feb 2018, 4:04pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:What do the US media make of the suggestion that teachers be armed?
Was the suggestion really made as it has been reported?

The Guardian reports that money may be made available to train and arm teachers, one wonders whether they may choose whether to take part

I do wish we had a few more US members here to provide alternative facts

What the media make of it depends on their leanings. The right leaning media seem to think it is, at least feasible, though they question the cost, and some have proposed using former military personnel as guards instead.

The moderate and left leaning media seem to think it is anything from impractical to outright insane. Teachers themselves mostly don't want guns.

I think, though, that one thing that can put in perspective is that when the 2nd amendment was written, the US was in it's infancy. They had succeeded in overthrowing what they saw as an oppressive government, and wanted to ensure that US citizens would preserve the ability to arm themselves, partly in case another overthrow of the govenment was required. Thomas Jefferson possibly took the most extreme version of this view. He wrote in a letter,
What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.


A teacher I know wrote that she can't hit the broad side of a barn. She fears for her students if she had to use a gun. Also, she said she would wory that she could be disarmed by an angry student. Lastly, she recounted an experience when she was younger and saw a teacher slam a youngster up against a locker. It was beyond the bounds of acceptable behaviour and the teacher was disciplined, *but* teachers are only human. They lose their tempers sometimes. They can lose control. And how much worse could that type of scenario be if teachers went armed?

Personally, i think it is an insane idea. Teachers are there to teach. But I guess it's easy enough to blame them already when things go wrong, so it is one more thing that could be their fault. :twisted:

I sincerely hope that something changes in the USA. I hope that this is the last straw. But people said that after Sandy Hook, as well.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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661-Pete
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby 661-Pete » 23 Feb 2018, 4:06pm

I reckon Trump should be equipped with a Colt 45 or similar, and sent single-handed into one of those schools himself. See if he runs away...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

mercalia
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Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby mercalia » 23 Feb 2018, 4:28pm

Vorpal wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:What do the US media make of the suggestion that teachers be armed?
Was the suggestion really made as it has been reported?

The Guardian reports that money may be made available to train and arm teachers, one wonders whether they may choose whether to take part

I do wish we had a few more US members here to provide alternative facts

What the media make of it depends on their leanings. The right leaning media seem to think it is, at least feasible, though they question the cost, and some have proposed using former military personnel as guards instead.

The moderate and left leaning media seem to think it is anything from impractical to outright insane. Teachers themselves mostly don't want guns.

I think, though, that one thing that can put in perspective is that when the 2nd amendment was written, the US was in it's infancy. They had succeeded in overthrowing what they saw as an oppressive government, and wanted to ensure that US citizens would preserve the ability to arm themselves, partly in case another overthrow of the govenment was required. Thomas Jefferson possibly took the most extreme version of this view. He wrote in a letter,
What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.


A teacher I know wrote that she can't hit the broad side of a barn. She fears for her students if she had to use a gun. Also, she said she would wory that she could be disarmed by an angry student. Lastly, she recounted an experience when she was younger and saw a teacher slam a youngster up against a locker. It was beyond the bounds of acceptable behaviour and the teacher was disciplined, *but* teachers are only human. They lose their tempers sometimes. They can lose control. And how much worse could that type of scenario be if teachers went armed?

Personally, i think it is an insane idea. Teachers are there to teach. But I guess it's easy enough to blame them already when things go wrong, so it is one more thing that could be their fault. :twisted:

I sincerely hope that something changes in the USA. I hope that this is the last straw. But people said that after Sandy Hook, as well.



things will only change when some thing closer home touches their lives? some one goes shooting up the kids of the senators?

Vorpal
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Vorpal » 23 Feb 2018, 4:32pm

mercalia wrote:
things will only change when some thing closer home touches their lives? some one goes shooting up the kids of the senators?

They've shot several presidents you'd think that would have been enough.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Flinders
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Flinders » 26 Feb 2018, 2:03pm

If 'concealed carry' was allowed in the capitol and at all state occasions where politicians were present, with anyone at all including members of the public allowed to take in a semi-automatic if they wanted to as well, then you'd find things would change pronto.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 26 Feb 2018, 2:17pm

I understand the rules vary between states, in some one must conceal a weapon, in others it must be visible

Can anyone explain? Which is safer or better?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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thirdcrank
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Feb 2018, 2:17pm

One problem here is that it's hard for somebody who is more or less normal - and I know that that's not easily defined - to understand the mind of somebody who isn't.

If you wouldn't hurt a fly, then you may be wasting your time trying to understand somebody who would be relaxed about gunning down school children by the classroomful. In particular, they may be indifferent to the prospect of their own death and may in fact be just hoping to achieve some sort of notoriety on the way out. Somebody in that frame of mind won't be deterred by the possibility of being confronted by others with firearms and may welcome it. In that situation, the purpose of the goodies being armed is simply to stop ie stop dead, the would be killer.

Before anybody explains to me the risks of firearms I've got it already. No guns = no shooting, accidental or intended.