Is Trump Mad?

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Is Trump Mad?

yes
84
64%
no
35
27%
maybe
8
6%
maybe not
3
2%
dont know
2
2%
 
Total votes: 132

pete75
Posts: 13641
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby pete75 » 13 Nov 2020, 8:56am

PDQ Mobile wrote:Any doubt is now dispelled.

Biden projected to win Arizona.
Gaining another 11 EC votes.

Federal Agencies say no evidence of widespread fraud, "the election the most secure in American history".

Biden will be the next President.
His position is unassailable. IMV.

And bye bye (bad) loser.

Not if the various armed militias think otherwise. Who will stop them? The US military and police seem to consist largely of Republican supporters so they won't.

djnotts
Posts: 1823
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby djnotts » 13 Nov 2020, 8:59am

Trump has the overwhelming fire power. Simply a question of if/when he decides to unleash it. American military likes nothing better than killing unarmed civilians.

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 3966
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 13 Nov 2020, 9:14am

^^
Pete and DJ.
Your assessments are overly pessimissic IMV.
What will happen is that support will slip away from Trump.
It has already started.

Pivotal figures like Mcconnel (although he is a hypocrite of the first order) will shift their position.
Once this shift of support starts it will gather momentum and Trump will be isolated.
He's finished.

I expect little trouble.

djnotts
Posts: 1823
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby djnotts » 13 Nov 2020, 9:24am

PDQ Mobile wrote:^^
Pete and DJ.
Your assessments are overly pessimissic IMV.
What will happen is that support will slip away from Trump.
It has already started.

Pivotal figures like Mcconnel (although he is a hypocrite of the first order) will shift their position.
Once this shift of support starts it will gather momentum and Trump will be isolated.
He's finished.

I expect little trouble.


I do hope so! I'm not in a position to judge the likelihood of his choosing to ignore the "result", but it is I think pretty clear that if he decides to remain in office then he has the means so to do.

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 3966
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 13 Nov 2020, 9:33am

djnotts wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:^^
Pete and DJ.
Your assessments are overly pessimissic IMV.
What will happen is that support will slip away from Trump.
It has already started.

Pivotal figures like Mcconnel (although he is a hypocrite of the first order) will shift their position.
Once this shift of support starts it will gather momentum and Trump will be isolated.
He's finished.

I expect little trouble.


I do hope so! I'm not in a position to judge the likelihood of his choosing to ignore the "result", but it is I think pretty clear that if he decides to remain in office then he has the means so to do.

You mean by staging an armed coup?
Barricading himself the White House?

I think America, for all its faults, has more decent democratic principles and people and they won't allow that.
There are a great many Republicans who support a fair democracy.
They have been waiting for clarity of the results.
That time has now arrived. IMV

djnotts
Posts: 1823
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby djnotts » 13 Nov 2020, 9:46am

America? Democratic principles? Wow. Never noticed that. "Might is right" that most hypocritical of state's only ruling principle.

pete75
Posts: 13641
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby pete75 » 13 Nov 2020, 9:53am

PDQ Mobile wrote:
djnotts wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:^^
Pete and DJ.
Your assessments are overly pessimissic IMV.
What will happen is that support will slip away from Trump.
It has already started.

Pivotal figures like Mcconnel (although he is a hypocrite of the first order) will shift their position.
Once this shift of support starts it will gather momentum and Trump will be isolated.
He's finished.

I expect little trouble.


I do hope so! I'm not in a position to judge the likelihood of his choosing to ignore the "result", but it is I think pretty clear that if he decides to remain in office then he has the means so to do.

You mean by staging an armed coup?
Barricading himself the White House?

I think America, for all its faults, has more decent democratic principles and people and they won't allow that.
There are a great many Republicans who support a fair democracy.
They have been waiting for clarity of the results.
That time has now arrived. IMV


I'm sure you're right about that but they're not the Republicans in the militias and the military.

thirdcrank
Posts: 30521
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby thirdcrank » 13 Nov 2020, 9:54am

Whatever anti-American feelings anybody has, it's hard to see anything good coming from a collapse of the United States.

pete75
Posts: 13641
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby pete75 » 13 Nov 2020, 10:05am

thirdcrank wrote:Whatever anti-American feelings anybody has, it's hard to see anything good coming from a collapse of the United States.


It wouldn't be a collapse just a change in how the head of state is chosen. An hereditary Trump dynasty.

reohn2
Posts: 40625
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby reohn2 » 13 Nov 2020, 10:10am

thirdcrank wrote:Whatever anti-American feelings anybody has, it's hard to see anything good coming from a collapse of the United States.

Whilst I agree with your assessment,Trump will pull every trick in his nasty book that gives him power,he's one nasty piece of work with some very nasty people behind him.
I think he'll go but it's the trouble and mayhem he'll cause in leaving that bothers me,it wouldn't surprise me in the least if many of his supporters will reach for their weapons first and think later.
Troubling times in the next couple months for the US with potentially much bood loss,I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Psamathe
Posts: 11937
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Psamathe » 13 Nov 2020, 10:25am

mercalia wrote:A very frightening scenario, NO a really shocking scenario. Dictator ship USA with Trump using the law to steal the election

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/12/trump-election-concede-republicans-democrats?

I can't see it happening. Western democracies tend to refuse to recognise elections where power is seized. Virtually all national leaders have recognised the result and congratulated Biden. If Trump & Democrats seize power then would we really negotiate with him for a trade deal or recognise him as an ally?

I think for Trump it's about his narcissism but for the Republicans it's about the Senate re-run where perceptions of "it was stolen from us by fraud" will help inspire all Republicans to get out and vote to save their seats (and ensure Biden cannot achieve much at least for 2 years).

Ian

Jdsk
Posts: 5163
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Jdsk » 13 Nov 2020, 10:32am

Republicans aren't a single group for this purpose, as above.

I don't know any good data on how US military personnel vote. (I was surprised by the suggestions in the phased counting of overseas votes that it wasn't overwhelmingly Republican.)

Jonathan

pete75
Posts: 13641
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby pete75 » 13 Nov 2020, 10:35am

Psamathe wrote:
mercalia wrote:A very frightening scenario, NO a really shocking scenario. Dictator ship USA with Trump using the law to steal the election

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/12/trump-election-concede-republicans-democrats?

I can't see it happening. Western democracies tend to refuse to recognise elections where power is seized. Virtually all national leaders have recognised the result and congratulated Biden. If Trump & Democrats seize power then would we really negotiate with him for a trade deal or recognise him as an ally?

I think for Trump it's about his narcissism but for the Republicans it's about the Senate re-run where perceptions of "it was stolen from us by fraud" will help inspire all Republicans to get out and vote to save their seats (and ensure Biden cannot achieve much at least for 2 years).

Ian


Johnson would. Farage and his 17.4 million fellow travellers would. They've built their whole post EU strategy around a US trade deal.

thirdcrank
Posts: 30521
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby thirdcrank » 13 Nov 2020, 10:57am

I can only see two results here:

Either, the procedures will inexorably trundle on, with a Biden inauguration

Or, their may a widespread collapse of public order which the authorities cannot contain, leading to worse still.

I think (and hope) that the latter is much less likely, although that's probably bourgeois wishful-thinking on my part.

I could easily imagine less-widespread disorder being started by anything although Winter weather may help to dampen things down. Perhaps a cycle of incident => response => protest => stronger response => bigger protest might develop but I doubt it will reach the stage of bring down the entire United States society.

Nor can I see Trump swerving through all the maze of the US Constitution to be able to continue for "for more years" like something from a soap opera.

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 3966
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 13 Nov 2020, 11:11am

pete75 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
mercalia wrote:A very frightening scenario, NO a really shocking scenario. Dictator ship USA with Trump using the law to steal the election

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/12/trump-election-concede-republicans-democrats?

I can't see it happening. Western democracies tend to refuse to recognise elections where power is seized. Virtually all national leaders have recognised the result and congratulated Biden. If Trump & Democrats seize power then would we really negotiate with him for a trade deal or recognise him as an ally?

I think for Trump it's about his narcissism but for the Republicans it's about the Senate re-run where perceptions of "it was stolen from us by fraud" will help inspire all Republicans to get out and vote to save their seats (and ensure Biden cannot achieve much at least for 2 years).

Ian


Johnson would. Farage and his 17.4 million fellow travellers would. They've built their whole post EU strategy around a US trade deal.

Psmathe is right IMV.
Imagine Johnson doing a deal with a despotic Trump who had sized power illegally. And make no mistake it would be that.
The House of Commons has to be taken into account.
Trump is toast. A loser.