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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 11:34am
by djnotts
The Supreme Court would declare it legal, so no problem for sycophant Johnson.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 11:34am
by merseymouth
Hi all, None of us thought that Bobby Ewing would rise from the grave did we? Maybe Trump will also come out from he "Political Shower", or is that a rabble?? But I hope they don't screen the blob emerging on TV! Yuk. MM

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 11:54am
by PDQ Mobile
djnotts wrote:The Supreme Court would declare it legal, so no problem for sycophant Johnson.

While the Supreme Court, as Trump appointees and majority Republican, would do many things IMV they would not do this.
They will uphold the law as it is set up.
When due process has taken its course,as it will, things will go the way they should.

Biden is quiet. He does not need to stir tension.
He knows he has not only the law but also most world leaders on his side. And over half of Americans of course, don't forget them.

Imagine what Justin Trudeau would do if Trump tried to take (or retain) the White House by force?
He would close the border and end all trade. IMHO

Trump's tenure is over. He can stand again in 4 years.Maybe.

This is about money for him of course. It was stated that he had a "war chest" amassed over 4 years of nearly a billion dollars to fight the election. There are some disappointed and influencial donors for sure. But hey, life ain't always what one hopes for.
It is a lesson some learn sooner than others.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 12:02pm
by Jdsk
PDQ Mobile wrote:Biden is quiet. He does not need to stir tension.
He knows he has not only the law but also most world leaders on his side. And over half of Americans of course, don't forget them.

Yes. Smart tactics for the present. And he'll probably have to work with Republicans.

Obama has started to speak out.

Jonathan

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 12:12pm
by Psamathe
PDQ Mobile wrote:...This is about money for him of course. It was stated that he had a "war chest" ammessed over 4 years of nearly a billion dollars to fight the election. ....

Several commentators (press) have written that he is also trying to avoid bankruptcy and prison. Personally I'm in no position to assess those risks but apparently he has a lot of loans due in the next year or so, personally guaranteed and he does not have the money to pay them off. Maybe he can borrow more to pay them off (not sure if that is legal or if anybody would lend him money with the court cases being prepared). Plus there is the question as to tax fraud (he may have to answer in court ...). As President he is somewhat protected but once out of office I suspect companies & authorities will feel freer to act.

Ian

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 12:15pm
by Jdsk
Psamathe wrote:As President he is somewhat protected but once out of office I suspect companies & authorities will feel freer to act.

Me too. I'm expecting some pardons, but that still removes the DoJ policy on not prosecuting, and the pardons won't cover lower courts. And financial crimes are much easier to prove. And not just tax... emoluments...

Jonathan

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 12:40pm
by pete75
PDQ Mobile wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I can't see it happening. Western democracies tend to refuse to recognise elections where power is seized. Virtually all national leaders have recognised the result and congratulated Biden. If Trump & Democrats seize power then would we really negotiate with him for a trade deal or recognise him as an ally?

I think for Trump it's about his narcissism but for the Republicans it's about the Senate re-run where perceptions of "it was stolen from us by fraud" will help inspire all Republicans to get out and vote to save their seats (and ensure Biden cannot achieve much at least for 2 years).

Ian


Johnson would. Farage and his 17.4 million fellow travellers would. They've built their whole post EU strategy around a US trade deal.

Psmathe is right IMV.
Imagine Johnson doing a deal with a despotic Trump who had sized power illegally. And make no mistake it would be that.
The House of Commons has to be taken into account.
Trump is toast. A loser.


Would that be the House of Commons where Johnson has an 80+ Tory majority who voted through a parliamentary bill designed to break international law.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 12:51pm
by PDQ Mobile
Pete.
Yes that's the one.
They are many things and you know my feelings about them.

But I think they would draw the line at that.
Or in 3or 4 years be forced to conduct their own coup!!
Actually not looking all that secure already. :shock:

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 12:59pm
by Jdsk
The UK has an enormous problem in scrutiny and accountability of the Executive and generally in separation of powers. The HoC has shown its inadequacy. The unelected second chamber and the courts have done rather better.

It's very helpful to have other countries that are a bit like us that we can use as comparators.

Jonathan

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 1:01pm
by Psamathe
pete75 wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Johnson would. Farage and his 17.4 million fellow travellers would. They've built their whole post EU strategy around a US trade deal.

Psmathe is right IMV.
Imagine Johnson doing a deal with a despotic Trump who had sized power illegally. And make no mistake it would be that.
The House of Commons has to be taken into account.
Trump is toast. A loser.


Would that be the House of Commons where Johnson has an 80+ Tory majority who voted through a parliamentary bill designed to break international law.

My personal opinion is that on the bill breaking international treaties/laws is that Johnson it's playing games. Johnson does not seem to have much idea when it comes to negotiating - all he seems able to do is to fling ludicrous accusations about and threaten to walk out if he does not get what he wants. No surprise that when negotiating international treaties this does not work, yet Johnson is not smart enough to notice. He must realise the message it would send to any other country looking to agree anything with the UK so I expect it will be watered down to nothing as a face saving exercise. I don't think it an accident that the EU negotiations are set to conclude before the said bill is finalised ...

But that is just personal opinion and I must admit I'm probably under-estimating Johnson's stupidity here.

Ian

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 1:06pm
by thirdcrank
The Supreme Court decided that the government's authority emanated from the House of Commons (that's in my words) so when Covid19 led to the most severe restriction on liberty in living memory the HoC all sloped off home (that's in my words, too.)

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 1:09pm
by kwackers
Psamathe wrote:But that is just personal opinion and I must admit I'm probably under-estimating Johnson's stupidity here.

It's that bit I find interesting.

Politicians aren't stupid not by a long way and yet often their actions seem (at least superficially) to be absolutely so.
Why is that?

Politics by committee? Out of touch? Lack of empathy? Poor advice?

There's a thesis in there somewhere.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 1:15pm
by Jdsk
Structures!

You can see that in the HoC: excellent and often nonpartisan reports from Select Committees, but far too often pathetic tribal debates in the Chamber. Same people.

And the countermeasures are well-known

Jonathan

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 4:41pm
by pete75
Jdsk wrote:The UK has an enormous problem in scrutiny and accountability of the Executive and generally in separation of powers. The HoC has shown its inadequacy. The unelected second chamber and the courts have done rather better.

It's very helpful to have other countries that are a bit like us that we can use as comparators.

Jonathan


Is there any other country that's just a third of a democracy? Three branches of legislature, the Commons, the Lords and the Monarch(head of state). We can vote for members of the Commons, not for members of the Lords who are appointed by the leader of the ruling party and not for the head of state who inherits the role.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 13 Nov 2020, 5:08pm
by Jdsk
IMHO a large part of the problem is English exceptionalism and the sin of GoldenAgery: if we could overcome those we could think of much better systems... and look at how other countries approach the requirements, and choose the bits that would be better. We rarely even get started.

Iran has reserved seats for supernaturalists so we share that. Italy has some appointees in the second chamber, but mostly elected.

New Zealand and Denmark are rather like us and recently changed to unicameral systems. That's a good solution.

The other north European monarchies have the highest quality of life that has ever been known. But they don't have our pervasive patronage that props up the whole rotten class system.

Jonathan