Is Trump Mad?

[thirdcrank]

Over the last few weeks, I've been impressed by the foresight of the early leaders of the United States in the way they formulated their Constitution and the early amendments to it. The next president has been elected and the system is moving inexorably to his inauguration.

I cannot help feeling that their foresight failed over the right to bear arms. To be fair to them, they might not have had any way of forseeing that the Industrial Revolution would lead to developments like the breech loading rifle and the mechanisation of slaughter with the Gatling gun, with even more to follow in the 20C.

I understand that militias were considered one of the checks on oppressive government but it's perhaps a pity that they didn't have the confidence to recognise that the rest of the US Constitution they had devised was more than adequate to preserve their fledgling democracy. As it is, it may be that the extent of privately-held firearms inflicts harm on the US that could not have been imagined in the 18C.

I hope that the transition is peaceful.

[reohn2]

I don't think that there is a high likelihood of an effective coup, but that's not to say there will not be more violence. I think it is entirely possible that there could be a partly successful coup, or successful coups in some state governments.

The extremists have been allowed to get out of hand in the USA. There are quite a lot of very angry armed people who honestly believe their government is being illegally taken over by commies and freaks.

The military may not support a coup, but many law enforcement agencies and the National Guard were absent for hours on the 6th January. They lacked authorisation to respond. While I hope that problem has been/will be fixed, Trump has fired most of the agency and department heads with the best capability for handling emergencies like this, and replaced them with 'acting' heads who kowtow to him.

Parts of the military acting, without authorisation, against further violence, or an attempted coup, would be almost as problematic as Trump's sedition. Removing him from office will likely incite further violence. If Pence goes with him, the current Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, would become acting President. While she certainly would authorise the use of federal law enforcement and the National Guard in suppressing violence, it's difficult to see how the US can get out of the cycle of violence that has begun. Suppression will likely beget more terrorism.

edited to add: it's not just militia groups, either. while they are possibility the most capable, there are lots of average Americans who believe their President has been wronged. Remember that 70 million people *voted* for Trump a couple of months ago, and many of them believe Trump that there were illegal voting practices.

Whatever happens,the future of the USA is potentially on the verge of a LOT of violence by those who believe what you state.
The USA is AFAICS a very divided country that is armed to the teeth and IMO it will remain a divided country armed to the teeth.
What Trump has done has accentuated that division to the n'th degree,knowingly,in the most gross way giving voice and credence to some of the most extreme elements of that society in an attempt to capitalise on it for means to his own ends.
He,in his mentally deluded state,believes he's the true leader,"the chosen one" believing he's still the president.
That kind of delusion in powerful people makes for civil war with enough followers.

The head of the armed forces signing a letter bearing allegiance to the constitution is one thing,whether the soldiers serving under them follow their orders could be another matter.

These are very troubling times for the USA and should a civil war ensue,very unsettling for the world.
On another thread about our own government and the pandemic I posted that it amounted to a "perfect storm" the storm brewing in the US could make ours look very small indeed.

[Psamathe]

Whatever the world thinks of Trump now, Johnson is standing by him

Boris Johnson stands by claim Donald Trump deserves Nobel Peace Prize
Boris Johnson has stood by by his claim that outgoing US president Donald Trump deserves to win a Nobel Peace Prize.

The prime minister was questioned about his comments from 2018 at meeting of parliament's liaison committee on Wednesday.

Ian

[kwackers]

Whatever the world thinks of Trump now, Johnson is standing by him

Boris Johnson stands by claim Donald Trump deserves Nobel Peace Prize
Boris Johnson has stood by by his claim that outgoing US president Donald Trump deserves to win a Nobel Peace Prize.

The prime minister was questioned about his comments from 2018 at meeting of parliament's liaison committee on Wednesday.

Ian

I once broke up a fight between two cats.
I reckon that gives me a more valid claim.

[kylecycler]

Whatever the world thinks of Trump now, Johnson is standing by him

Boris Johnson stands by claim Donald Trump deserves Nobel Peace Prize
Boris Johnson has stood by by his claim that outgoing US president Donald Trump deserves to win a Nobel Peace Prize.

The prime minister was questioned about his comments from 2018 at meeting of parliament's liaison committee on Wednesday.

Ian

I once broke up a fight between two cats.
I reckon that gives me a more valid claim.

Just out of interest, totally OT, but how did you do it? A scruff in each hand or a bucket of water?

[reohn2]

Whatever the world thinks of Trump now, Johnson is standing by him

Boris Johnson stands by claim Donald Trump deserves Nobel Peace Prize
Boris Johnson has stood by by his claim that outgoing US president Donald Trump deserves to win a Nobel Peace Prize.

The prime minister was questioned about his comments from 2018 at meeting of parliament's liaison committee on Wednesday.

Ian

I once broke up a fight between two cats.
I reckon that gives me a more valid claim.

Pffft,try breaking up a fight between two teenage daughters

[kylecycler]

Whatever the world thinks of Trump now, Johnson is standing by him
Ian

I once broke up a fight between two cats.
I reckon that gives me a more valid claim.

Pffft,try breaking up a fight between two teenage daughters

I'm guessing you grabbed them by the hair!

[reohn2]

I once broke up a fight between two cats.
I reckon that gives me a more valid claim.

Pffft,try breaking up a fight between two teenage daughters

I'm guessing you grabbed them by the hair!

I went for the cold water over the head treatment

[kwackers]

Just out of interest, totally OT, but how did you do it? A scruff in each hand or a bucket of water?

Bucket of water.
(I once tried to break up a fight between two by grabbing them - I won't do that again!)

[kylecycler]

So, same technique for cats and daughters!

[thirdcrank]

Another thing that the Founding Fathers might not have anticipated was the way the growth of political parties has influenced the operation of the US Constitution. The judgment of an impeachment trial isn't improved by being made along party lines.

[PDQ Mobile]

Another thing that the Founding Fathers might not have anticipated was the way the growth of political parties has influenced the operation of the US Constitution. The judgment of an impeachment trial isn't improved by being made along party lines.

And along "party" lines it is.

More about a name or label than actual policy.
For many years the difference in policy between Republican and Democrat has been very small.
From a European perspective you could hardly put a fag paper between them for many years.
Perhaps the gap has widened a little in the last few years?
But radical green, left, or even socialist I think they are both not.

A colleague suggested the biggest difference now is religion, one being more "bible bashing" in it's membership than the other.
I have no idea if there is any truth in that.
A partly religious conflict?

Or just plain and simple old fashioned tribal?

[Pebble]

will the Republican party split to make three parties ? Democrats, Republicans and Trumps.

The Trumps could outnumber Republicans by a country mile. He got something like 70 million votes, more people voted for trump than for any other president ever (Biden won but many of his votes were not for him, they were anti trump)

The support for trump is like nothing ever seen before, and they are very very loyal. Any Republican senator will be acutely aware that if they vote against trump their political careers are finished. Trump is not going away any time soon.

[Jdsk]

Another thing that the Founding Fathers might not have anticipated was the way the growth of political parties has influenced the operation of the US Constitution.

The most striking illustration of this is their idea that the losing Presidential candidate should become Vice President.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Jonathan

[reohn2]

In case anyone isn't aware:- https://youtu.be/GbPRl_QJbMw