Page 3 of 91

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 7 Dec 2017, 11:17pm
by JohnW
bovlomov wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
bigjim wrote:He may be mad, I'm not qualified to judge, but I doubt any decision is made by him alone. I would have thought there is a lot of manipualtion going on and the powers that be, not necessarily POTUS, know exactly what they are doing and the likely reaction.

It has been reported that in the case of recognising Jerusalem, he was advised by his son-in-law Jared Kushner (longtime family friend of Mr Netanyahu, and his parents have contributed to Israeli settlements in territories in dispute with Palestinians)

The Christian Right's enthusiasm for Jewish causes is rather complicated and not much to do with respect...............

............neither is it Christian.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 7 Dec 2017, 11:23pm
by bovlomov
JohnW wrote:
bovlomov wrote:
Psamathe wrote:It has been reported that in the case of recognising Jerusalem, he was advised by his son-in-law Jared Kushner (longtime family friend of Mr Netanyahu, and his parents have contributed to Israeli settlements in territories in dispute with Palestinians)

The Christian Right's enthusiasm for Jewish causes is rather complicated and not much to do with respect...............

............neither is it Christian.

No. And the funny thing is that many of them seem to have no concept of Christ. It's all rather Old Testament, and entirely ignores Christ the man and his teachings. The only recognisably Christian thing about them is the cross they brandish (and burn) - and wasn't the cross rather a latecomer to the Christian scene?

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Dec 2017, 12:33pm
by Stevek76
reohn2 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:My take is that he is:

Entirely without principle and ideology, meaning he is the ultimate pragmatist.
An extreme narcissist.
Dangerously unschooled in international affairs (well, any affairs tbh).
In some way subject to undue influence by Russia.
Not mad.

All of which adds upto madness IMO


Well this is very semantics really, madness is mostly synonymous with insanity and legally I doubt trump would get away with an insanity plea. That said, as far as psychology goes, 'madness' and 'insanity' are not used as they are far too broad and diffuse in meaning to be useful, the same also applies to psychopathy and sociopathy these days.

@bonefishblues, more semantics but I'm not sure pragmatist is the right word, pragmatists base actions on fact and reality and usually at least some consideration is involved. Trump is far too impulsive to be a pragmatist, though he does seem to be without any, consistent at least, ideology.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Dec 2017, 12:38pm
by Bonefishblues
I guess my meaning was a seamless "see that, want that, do this to get that" continuum in the context of pragmatism, unfussed about the labelling thereof.

ETA
(Although I do appreciate that I really should indulge in a pointless semantic debate, of course :lol: )

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Dec 2017, 8:48pm
by RickH
I don't know about mad but, from what I was listening to the other day, a psychopath! :shock:

I was in the car driving home from Chester on Tuesday afternoon. As I sometimes do I switched on the radio which happened to to be on Radio 4.

What came on was a programme called "I Was..." and was about a couple who ended up sharing their house for a time with Philp K Dick author of, among other things, the 1968 science fiction novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" (the basis for the film Blade Runner).

This bit (which I hope I've transcribed reasonably accurately - you can listen to it yourself if you want to check - as I thought it relevant to these discussions) made me think of a certain American at the time.

There was a book written many years later by Robert Hare, a local psychologist & professor at University of British Columbia, "Without Conscience, the Psychopath Among Us". You hear "psychopath" and you think "murderer" or "serial killer", but he said no, many are CEOs or, perhaps, surgeons!

A psychopath is someone who has a genetic abnormality that means they do not have empathy... Psychopaths tend to wreck other people's lives. They feel any hurt done to them as being huge and yet they inflict hurt on other people, insults in particular. They manipulate, they lie, and they have no remorse, no conscience.

(Radio 4 "I was... Philip K Dick's Reluctant Host" 05/12/2017 starting at 21:05)

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Dec 2017, 9:12pm
by old_windbag
RickH wrote:a psychopath! :shock:


You would think he ticks many of the boxes that sum that condition up but I don't know him personally to go that far. There was an example put forward of the benefit of a psychopathic personality. This was in the case of say many people( civilians ) holed up in a building when the enemy soldiers arrive. If there is a sound they'll be given away and massacred, then a baby starts to cry and won't stop. Most empathetic people struggle to make a decision resulting in them being found and all killed. The psychopathic person knows the optimum decision without the empathy conflict and kills the baby, they aren't discovered and they survive. The argument was that we do at times need to have such personalities among us.

I'm sure there are many situations where a non emotional detached response is an aid to complex/moral decisions, perhaps why they are often found at the top of corporations.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Dec 2017, 11:06pm
by Eton Rifle
bovlomov wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
bigjim wrote:He may be mad, I'm not qualified to judge, but I doubt any decision is made by him alone. I would have thought there is a lot of manipualtion going on and the powers that be, not necessarily POTUS, know exactly what they are doing and the likely reaction.

It has been reported that in the case of recognising Jerusalem, he was advised by his son-in-law Jared Kushner (longtime family friend of Mr Netanyahu, and his parents have contributed to Israeli settlements in territories in dispute with Palestinians)

The Christian Right's enthusiasm for Jewish causes is rather complicated and not much to do with respect. Some Israelis might see a short term benefit in sucking up to Trump, but I think they are playing a very dangerous game. Among Trump's friends and supporters are many who would welcome another holocaust (I say 'another', but of course many don't recognise that it happened in the first place).


It's always rather puzzled me. Go back a few decades and the Septics were squarely against Israel - look at their intervention in the Suez Crisis and their embargo on selling weapons to Israel.

Then Realpolitik took hold and the Yanks needed a bulwark against Soviet influence in the Middle East and the associated threat to cheap oil, so Tel Aviv becomes best buddy, despite Israeli aggression in the region.

However, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, I really don't understand why the Americans went on supporting Israel. Had the myth of armed Israelis being modern day cowboys against Palestinian "Indians" simply become too entrenched to reverse? Baffling.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Dec 2017, 11:26pm
by Psamathe
It's escalating
Israel launches air strike on Gaza amid violent clashes over Trump's Jerusalem decision
...
Reports on the number of injured ranged from 14 to 25 people, with one report saying six children were wounded.

The Israeli military said it had carried out the strikes on a Hamas training camp and on a weapons depot in response to rockets fired earlier from Gaza at Israeli towns. Witnesses told Reuters that most of the wounded were residents of a building near the camp.

Of two reported rockets fired from the Gaza Strip, the first was claimed to have been intercepted by Israel's Iron Dome defence system. A second fell short of Israeli territory according to reports in Israeli media.

Tragic but I have to say I did think Trump's decision was likely to cause further conflict. I'm surprised Trump didn't see it as likely as well (maybe he did).

Ian

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Dec 2017, 11:36pm
by Psamathe
For info:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-mental-health-state-danger-all-us-president-forensic-psychiatrist-bandy-lee-a8099661.html wrote:Trump’s mental state a ‘danger to us all’, warns leading forensic psychiatrist
...
Donald Trump is displaying personality traits linked to a “psychological disability” that poses a “danger to us all”, a leading forensic psychiatrist has claimed.

Mr Trump’s trademark Twitter tirades, boasts about sexual assault and “attraction to violence and weapons” raise serious questions about the US President’s mental fitness for office, said Bandy X Lee, an internationally recognised expert on violence at Yale School of Medicine.

She claimed Mr Trump’s mental state brought into question his ability to “think rationally, to take in needed information or advice, to weigh consequences and to make sound, logical decisions based on reality”.
.....


Ian

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 12:12am
by Bonefishblues

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 12:32am
by old_windbag
Psamathe wrote:Tragic but I have to say I did think Trump's decision was likely to cause further conflict.


Unfortunately it doesn't take much. As much as this is a debate on trumps mental state, I think there is a bigger question over the mental state of individuals who simply cannot live in peace. As well as those who live to extreme religious beliefs and views at everyone elses expense in the form of violence, oppression and terrorism. Even without trump there'd be trouble at some point, the gift of life is simply wasted on them.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 12:40am
by reohn2
old_windbag wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Tragic but I have to say I did think Trump's decision was likely to cause further conflict.


Unfortunately it doesn't take much. As much as this is a debate on trumps mental state, I think there is a bigger question over the mental state of individuals who simply cannot live in peace. As well as those who live to extreme religious beliefs and views at everyone elses expense in the form of violence, oppression and terrorism. Even without trump there'd be trouble at some point, the gift of life is simply wasted on them.

There are those who seek to disarm that hatred,oppression and violence and the there are those who seek to wind up the clockwork toy and see what happens next.
Its a hard road to peace and reconciliation and without much personal reward,but an easy road to violence and profit.
Trump is of the latter camp.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 11:41am
by bigjim
Don't ignore the fact that Obama made the unilateral decison to go to war in Syria and Iraq.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 11:56am
by reohn2
bigjim wrote:Don't ignore the fact that Obama made the unilateral decison to go to war in Syria and Iraq.

The subject matter is Trump and is he mad,his lies,descisions and behaviour are that of someone who doesn't know the consecuenses of his actions IMO.
At least Obama thougght through his actions before implementing them,that doesn't mean I agree with those actions but at least I can see the logic and thought pattern to them.
Trump,it seems likes to play golf and throw as many cats in as many pigeon lofts as he can find just to enjoy watching the resultant mayhem :?

EDIT,then there's the gangsters Trump is linked to.......

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 9 Dec 2017, 12:06pm
by Mick F
Mad, as in mentally ill?
No.

Reckless and misguided?
Yes.