Cycling UK Forum

Apart from Trump's (and his family's) very obvious and very significat shortcomings, I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't in part an issue with US people/culture as it is with Trump (and his lies/stupidity/rhetoric/ineptitude/etc). That so many can be taken in by such obvious lies and charades makes you wonder if Trump is to a degree a product of the US.

But then you have to ask the same of other western cultures e.g. UK - how can so many be taken in by the lies and stupidity of the likes of Farange, Banks, IDS, Mogg, etc. Is it the next step in our creating our own demise? (or at least the western culture bringing about its own demise).

To make such a big deal of a caravan of 5000 people fleeing and for that to become a major factor in selecting governance. Ignoring the fact that these caravans always shrink as they progress, even 5000 divided across 50 states gives 100 people per state! And that causes the US electorate to get in such a excited blinkered state?

But then the UK got similarly stewed-up about taking small numbers of genuine refugees.

Ian

Psamathe wrote:Apart from Trump's (and his family's) very obvious and very significat shortcomings, I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't in part an issue with US people/culture as it is with Trump (and his lies/stupidity/rhetoric/ineptitude/etc). That so many can be taken in by such obvious lies and charades makes you wonder if Trump is to a degree a product of the US.

But then you have to ask the same of other western cultures e.g. UK - how can so many be taken in by the lies and stupidity of the likes of Farange, Banks, IDS, Mogg, etc. Is it the next step in our creating our own demise? (or at least the western culture bringing about its own demise).

To make such a big deal of a caravan of 5000 people fleeing and for that to become a major factor in selecting governance. Ignoring the fact that these caravans always shrink as they progress, even 5000 divided across 50 states gives 100 people per state! And that causes the US electorate to get in such a excited blinkered state?

But then the UK got similarly stewed-up about taking small numbers of genuine refugees.

Ian

From what I can gather the amount of paranoia within the,shall we say the less educated/narrow minded people,is pampant.Their willingness to be fed a diet of crap knows no bounds it would seem,they just never see through the abject lies and deception peddled by snake oil salesmenand women.
It's no better here than in the US.

People should learn to question more but they still blindly follow their media "guides" even though the guides are repeatedly lying to them (or at least misleading them).
They can always see how "the other side" are supposedly being lied to as their guides point that out for them.

reohn2 wrote:

Psamathe wrote:Apart from Trump's (and his family's) very obvious and very significat shortcomings, I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't in part an issue with US people/culture as it is with Trump (and his lies/stupidity/rhetoric/ineptitude/etc). That so many can be taken in by such obvious lies and charades makes you wonder if Trump is to a degree a product of the US.

But then you have to ask the same of other western cultures e.g. UK - how can so many be taken in by the lies and stupidity of the likes of Farange, Banks, IDS, Mogg, etc. Is it the next step in our creating our own demise? (or at least the western culture bringing about its own demise).

To make such a big deal of a caravan of 5000 people fleeing and for that to become a major factor in selecting governance. Ignoring the fact that these caravans always shrink as they progress, even 5000 divided across 50 states gives 100 people per state! And that causes the US electorate to get in such a excited blinkered state?

But then the UK got similarly stewed-up about taking small numbers of genuine refugees.

Ian

From what I can gather the amount of paranoia within the,shall we say the less educated/narrow minded people,is pampant.Their willingness to be fed a diet of crap knows no bounds it would seem,they just never see through the abject lies and deception peddled by snake oil salesmenand women.
It's no better here than in the US.

I have the (maybe incorrect) impression that not all European countries suffer to the same extent. France for example (probably the country I'm most familiar with but I'm 10 years out of date) seems to have an electorate far more interested in understanding the issues and facts maybe as evidenced by Ms Far Right being rather a flop after such high expectations - maybe her electorate didn't believe her snake oil ?

Ian

Psamathe wrote:I have the (maybe incorrect) impression that not all European countries suffer to the same extent. France for example (probably the country I'm most familiar with but I'm 10 years out of date) seems to have an electorate far more interested in understanding the issues and facts maybe as evidenced by Ms Far Right being rather a flop after such high expectations - maybe her electorate didn't believe her snake oil ?

Ian

By here,I meant specifically the UK.The amount of politrickal ignorance is astounding!

Psamathe wrote:

reohn2 wrote:

Psamathe wrote:Apart from Trump's (and his family's) very obvious and very significat shortcomings, I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't in part an issue with US people/culture as it is with Trump (and his lies/stupidity/rhetoric/ineptitude/etc). That so many can be taken in by such obvious lies and charades makes you wonder if Trump is to a degree a product of the US.

But then you have to ask the same of other western cultures e.g. UK - how can so many be taken in by the lies and stupidity of the likes of Farange, Banks, IDS, Mogg, etc. Is it the next step in our creating our own demise? (or at least the western culture bringing about its own demise).

To make such a big deal of a caravan of 5000 people fleeing and for that to become a major factor in selecting governance. Ignoring the fact that these caravans always shrink as they progress, even 5000 divided across 50 states gives 100 people per state! And that causes the US electorate to get in such a excited blinkered state?

But then the UK got similarly stewed-up about taking small numbers of genuine refugees.

Ian

From what I can gather the amount of paranoia within the,shall we say the less educated/narrow minded people,is pampant.Their willingness to be fed a diet of crap knows no bounds it would seem,they just never see through the abject lies and deception peddled by snake oil salesmenand women.
It's no better here than in the US.

I have the (maybe incorrect) impression that not all European countries suffer to the same extent. France for example (probably the country I'm most familiar with but I'm 10 years out of date) seems to have an electorate far more interested in understanding the issues and facts maybe as evidenced by Ms Far Right being rather a flop after such high expectations - maybe her electorate didn't believe her snake oil ?

Ian

The zeitgeist of a nation is a complex thing but it is a way to summarise the general tone of the thinking of the population at large. As Mr R points out, the general tone of discourse about politics (or anything else) in the US is shot through (!) with paranoia and their long traditions of violence and intolerance as the solution to even minor issues of political (or personal) disagreement. For them it's always winners & losers.

In Blighty we used to have a better tradition - although it has to be said that there has always been the Daily Mail element. (From it's very beginning, that newspaper was a rabble-rouser).

The better traditions of political discourse in the UK have, as with so much else, been replaced gradually by modes of discourse aping those of the USA. This is largely because we import and consume so much of their culture, in the form of film, TV program and other stuff that provides that terrible set of model behaviours: the drawling and violent Clints; selfish criminalistic behaviours that are lauded as "strong and admirable individualism"; the "for us or against us" modes. Tolerant, altruistic and accepting behaviours are denigrated as "snowflake", those of "losers".

*****************

I recall a long stay in Australia during 2004. I was struck with the vastly better (than in Blighty) conduct of political discussions I heard on their wireless and saw on their TV. The behaviour of those discussing stuff in the pubs and elsewhere was also very much more tolerant, give & take, good-humoured and otherwise conducted in a civil fashion, despite the mutual extraction of the micturate. I'm told that just 14 years later, even the Aussie has now become more like the Yank and the Brit - intolerant, filled with potted opinions - people who are mere constructs of one rabid media organ or another, including now the many loony websites that provide "news" and "opinions" that are just the ravings of crazy people, so many of them Yanks.

Paradoxically, Europe has many nations wherein there was once intolerance and persecution of minorities, nations that are no longer like this (for the most part). Britain, after fighting WWII in the name of freedom and tolerance, has somehow swerved towards the fascist. Humans, eh! Perverse things, every one. We are easily led, in one direction or another. I would like to be led by Attlees rather than by Boris-klowns. Alas, the Attlees have all been lost.

Cugel

If you didn't hear his press conference, it's worth a listen. Box of frogs delusional.

Bonefishblues wrote:If you didn't hear his press conference, it's worth a listen. Box of frogs delusional.

Yep saw a bit of it,but it was as much as I could put up with,
The guy is nuts.

reohn2 wrote:

Bonefishblues wrote:If you didn't hear his press conference, it's worth a listen. Box of frogs delusional.

Yep saw a bit of it,but it was as much as I could put up with,
The guy is nuts.

What shocked me in an excerpt I just saw is how rude he was about the CCN reporter "the way you treat other people is horrible" yet he cannot see how he treats others, how he has demeaned his own Attorney General for months, how he has laid into a woman who had the courage to come forward over an alleged attempted rape (by one on Trumps mates), how he has done unbelievably rude impressions of disabled people he does not like, etc., etc. Reality just isn't there. Some claim he's smart knowing how to "press people's buttons" but I believe he holds everybody in contempt thinking "they'll all believe whatever I say".

Ian

Psamathe wrote:

reohn2 wrote:

Bonefishblues wrote:If you didn't hear his press conference, it's worth a listen. Box of frogs delusional.

Yep saw a bit of it,but it was as much as I could put up with,
The guy is nuts.

What shocked me in an excerpt I just saw is how rude he was about the CCN reporter "the way you treat other people is horrible" yet he cannot see how he treats others, how he has demeaned his own Attorney General for months, how he has laid into a woman who had the courage to come forward over an alleged attempted rape (by one on Trumps mates), how he has done unbelievably rude impressions of disabled people he does not like, etc., etc. Reality just isn't there. Some claim he's smart knowing how to "press people's buttons" but I believe he holds everybody in contempt thinking "they'll all believe whatever I say".

Ian

Oh I think he can see absolutely how he's behaving.

The most absolute power has corrupted absolutely, that's the issue.

What was the quote - I could stab somebody in the street and my supporters would still support me, or similar?

I do hope that he lives long enough to hear how history regards him.

Bonefishblues wrote:Oh I think he can see absolutely how he's behaving.[/quote ]
I do too.

The most absolute power has corrupted absolutely, that's the issue.

Quite!

What was the quote - I could stab somebody in the street and my supporters would still support me, or similar?

That's the true tragedy people will believe him because they're a nuts as he is!

I do hope that he lives long enough to hear how history regards him.

Yep,he'd go down like a lead balloon!

We can but hope people come to there senses before the brown stuff really hits the fan and we all get a peice

I do hope that he lives long enough to hear how history regards him.

Depends on who writes the history, CNN or Fox.
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it."

Trump may or may not be mad. But he should not be excused his badness. Totally self-serving and absolutely corrupt better describes him.

He has already started an attempt to protect himself from the legal prosecution he deserves.

Oldjohnw wrote:Trump may or may not be mad. But he should not be excused his badness. Totally self-serving and absolutely corrupt better describes him.

He has already started an attempt to protect himself from the legal prosecution he deserves.

What legal prosecution is that?

al_yrpal wrote:Apparently Trump cut business taxes from 35% to 21% and tax revenues have increased by $3.3 trillion!

Al

Business tax revenue? Which is not done in real-time?
Or all taxes?
You aren't one of those who still believes in the Laffer Curve, are you? That's now well known as the equivalent of believing the earth is flat.