Cycling UK Forum

pwa wrote:Trump is living proof that what we generally consider "intelligence" or "cleverness" is not required to be financially successful. He says (and presumably thinks) the (Americanism) dumbest things, but he has built an impressive business empire and got elected to the top job.

Or even that financial success signifies intelligence or cleverness, the American dream that's in the process of being shown to be a nightmare.

There's a huge difference between wisdom and just being clever.
Attributed to a First Nation American Cheif:- "not until the last tree is cut down,the last river is poisoned,the last fish eaten,will you realise you cannot eat money= wisdom.
Attributed to a rich idiot:- He who dies with the most toys wins

pwa wrote:Trump is living proof that what we generally consider "intelligence" or "cleverness" is not required to be financially successful. He says (and presumably thinks) the (Americanism) dumbest things, but he has built an impressive business empire and got elected to the top job.

It's hard to know how impressive it is/was. Trump's father was already a successful real estate developer. Trump maintains he only got a $1 million loan from him and paid it back. The Economist reported it was $50 million and he largely didn't.

So he's successful, but as they say it's the first million that's the hardest, and if you got an easy loan everything is easier.

Ben@Forest wrote:

pwa wrote:Trump is living proof that what we generally consider "intelligence" or "cleverness" is not required to be financially successful. He says (and presumably thinks) the (Americanism) dumbest things, but he has built an impressive business empire and got elected to the top job.

It's hard to know how impressive it is/was. Trump's father was already a successful real estate developer. Trump maintains he only got a $1 million loan from him and paid it back. The Economist reported it was $50 million and he largely didn't.

So he's successful, but as they say it's the first million that's the hardest, and if you got an easy loan everything is easier.

Another perspective. Trump's grasp of fact is tenuous. Let's say the truth's somewhere in the middle.

https://qz.com/1411006/trumps-413-milli ... -spending/

reohn2 wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:I had a weird dream once about how someone found out Trump was born outside of America but smuggled in as a baby. What's more he could prove it and Trump lost his job as POTUS. The supreme Court had to decide which of his laws and edicts stood and which got struck out. By the time that was close to being sorted the next POTUS had been elected so Pence couldn't get into the WH.

Boy what a nice dream that was. The whole presidency of Trump got rolled back and American political scene became bipartisan while it got sorted.

Then I woke up!

Can someone please confirm whether I'm still dreaming or if this nightmare is really happening?

That's the dream of a liberal minded individual thinker who,deep within their psyche is a leftwing thinker but superficially thinks he's rightwing



Be true to your inner self,you're a leftwinger

For the UK I'm right wing. For USA I'm a socialist!

Tangled Metal wrote:

reohn2 wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:I had a weird dream once about how someone found out Trump was born outside of America but smuggled in as a baby. What's more he could prove it and Trump lost his job as POTUS. The supreme Court had to decide which of his laws and edicts stood and which got struck out. By the time that was close to being sorted the next POTUS had been elected so Pence couldn't get into the WH.

Boy what a nice dream that was. The whole presidency of Trump got rolled back and American political scene became bipartisan while it got sorted.

Then I woke up!

Can someone please confirm whether I'm still dreaming or if this nightmare is really happening?

That's the dream of a liberal minded individual thinker who,deep within their psyche is a leftwing thinker but superficially thinks he's rightwing



Be true to your inner self,you're a leftwinger

For the UK I'm right wing. For USA I'm a socialist!

Ben@Forest wrote:

pwa wrote:Trump is living proof that what we generally consider "intelligence" or "cleverness" is not required to be financially successful. He says (and presumably thinks) the (Americanism) dumbest things, but he has built an impressive business empire and got elected to the top job.

It's hard to know how impressive it is/was. Trump's father was already a successful real estate developer. Trump maintains he only got a $1 million loan from him and paid it back. The Economist reported it was $50 million and he largely didn't.

So he's successful, but as they say it's the first million that's the hardest, and if you got an easy loan everything is easier.

Trump is successful at grubbing up the dollars by exploitation of others. In Yankland this is defined as success since everything is defined by dollars, the only value they seem able to recognise.

Elsewhere there are other definitions of success as a human. Many of these definitions specifically exclude dollar-grubbing - especially the mode involving exploitation, degradation and sheer harm - as it's regarded as the antithesis of a successful person. For example. most religious societies; and those secular societies that recognise a hundred values besides cash value.

What do we Blighters value? Have we gone cash-value-only too?

Humans who degrade other humans, especially those that do so to the point of instigating the various forms of mass murder - from elimination of non-standard citizens, through warmongering to all-out genocide - are successful at being psychopathic but utter failures at being anything else. Trump seems poised to start a war and is already beginning to eliminate various people (including children) who are of the wrong hue. He will do a lot worse before he's reigned-in or dies himself.

Cugel

I believe that the fact that he is still popular with a large section of US society reflects very badly on the country. Why can't they see what the rest of us can see?

pwa wrote:I believe that the fact that he is still popular with a large section of US society reflects very badly on the country. Why can't they see what the rest of us can see?

There are certain parallels with another subject and the potential PM in this country.
Why can't people in the UK see the folly in the direction this country is heading?

pwa wrote:I believe that the fact that he is still popular with a large section of US society reflects very badly on the country. Why can't they see what the rest of us can see?

What we don't see is the domestic front.

America has crumbling infrastructure, so many of its roads, bridges and tunnels were built from postwar to the late 1960s. It's a problem which Trump promised to fix. I don't know if he is fixing it but if he or any other president was doing that it'd be hugely popular but largely unreported here.

It should also be noted the four women he insulted are a long way from the American mainstream, they have called for measures like slavery reparations that the vast majority of Americans don't agree with. One of them has had to apologise for anti-semitism in the past. We didn't hear about that, but they are on the other extreme of American politics compared to Trump. America is a bigger picture than what is presented to us here.

It's been reported about the antisemitism of one of the squad over here too. It's been reported that trump signed off a lot of money on infrastructure projects within the last few months. If you read a wide selection of news sources things like this come out.

News sources such as Google news can often lead to us need sources. I doubt in this modern age we in the UK only stick to UK news outlets. Some do (I know a daily fail online reader but she focuses on the sleb gossip news so doesn't count), but I wouldn't be surprised if people on here read NYT and Washington Post regularly online.

Ben@Forest wrote:
It should also be noted the four women he insulted are a long way from the American mainstream, they have called for measures like slavery reparations that the vast majority of Americans don't agree with. One of them has had to apologise for anti-semitism in the past. We didn't hear about that, but they are on the other extreme of American politics compared to Trump. America is a bigger picture than what is presented to us here.

[/quote]

So we await Trump's apology - for racist, islamaphopbic, anyi-disablef and misogynist comments. Then we can think of some sort equivalence.

Oldjohnw wrote:So we await Trump's apology - for racist, islamaphopbic, anyi-disablef and misogynist comments. Then we can think of some sort equivalence.

It's not about us or we at all. The whole point of this little diversion was pwa's question asking what the Americans don't see about Trump that we do.

The fact is that many Americans consider the 'squad' (as they are known) as wrong-headed, unpatriotic and racist. They see them as just as repugnant as you find Trump. I'm not saying it's right - but American politics and beliefs are a strain more to the right than ours.

Ben@Forest wrote:

Oldjohnw wrote:So we await Trump's apology - for racist, islamaphopbic, anyi-disablef and misogynist comments. Then we can think of some sort equivalence.

It's not about us or we at all. The whole point of this little diversion was pwa's question asking what the Americans don't see about Trump that we do.

The fact is that many Americans consider the 'squad' (as they are known) as wrong-headed, unpatriotic and racist. They see them as just as repugnant as you find Trump. I'm not saying it's right - but American politics and beliefs are a strain more to the right than ours.

Indeed, my buddy often speaks from a different perspective.

reohn2 wrote:

pwa wrote:I believe that the fact that he is still popular with a large section of US society reflects very badly on the country. Why can't they see what the rest of us can see?

There are certain parallels with another subject and the potential PM in this country.
Why can't people in the UK see the folly in the direction this country is heading?

I think we all agree on Trump. Why muddle it with the Tory leadership campaign? Okay, neither of us think BJ is in the "glorious leader" category (understatement) but if BJ were just a journalist I would find him amusing and wouldn't be bothered by him too much. Trump's defects are on an entirely different scale. He is a really nasty piece of work who will verbally attack anyone who disagrees with him, saying the nastiest and most personal things with no restraint. BJ's gaffs do not compare. And yes, I am thinking about the letterbox thing. If he had worded that better I would have agreed with him on the desirability of ethnic minorities integrating to the benefit of social cohesion. Trump does not want ethnic minorities to integrate. He does not want ethnic minorities at all. So let's not try to drag our own political scene into this? Trump is a topic on his own. I have seen some poor or despicable politicians over the years, but nothing like Trump. At least, not in a Western democracy.