Is Trump Mad?

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Is Trump Mad?

yes
43
55%
no
26
33%
maybe
5
6%
maybe not
3
4%
dont know
1
1%
 
Total votes: 78

Bonefishblues
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Jul 2019, 7:56am

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:I believe that the fact that he is still popular with a large section of US society reflects very badly on the country. Why can't they see what the rest of us can see?

There are certain parallels with another subject and the potential PM in this country.
Why can't people in the UK see the folly in the direction this country is heading?

I think we all agree on Trump. Why muddle it with the Tory leadership campaign? Okay, neither of us think BJ is in the "glorious leader" category (understatement) but if BJ were just a journalist I would find him amusing and wouldn't be bothered by him too much. Trump's defects are on an entirely different scale. He is a really nasty piece of work who will verbally attack anyone who disagrees with him, saying the nastiest and most personal things with no restraint. BJ's gaffs do not compare. And yes, I am thinking about the letterbox thing. If he had worded that better I would have agreed with him on the desirability of ethnic minorities integrating to the benefit of social cohesion. Trump does not want ethnic minorities to integrate. He does not want ethnic minorities at all. So let's not try to drag our own political scene into this? Trump is a topic on his own. I have seen some poor or despicable politicians over the years, but nothing like Trump. At least, not in a Western democracy.

...or at least none who wear it as a badge of pride in quite the same way as Trump, other than perhaps the Far Right movements in Europe of late, with their despicable ideologies.

pwa
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby pwa » 18 Jul 2019, 8:05am

Think of it this way. If we take a political figure many (all?) here find less than admirable, namely Farage, if he had said what Trump said recently, about citizens born here "going back", I think he would find himself in court PDQ. He would be banned from all sorts of things and his life in mainstream politics would be over. That sort of racist comment would not be tolerated here. In the US it is tolerated. Trump has got away with it. I find that jaw dropping and sickening.

Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Jul 2019, 8:25am

Isn't that more to do with freedom of speech in USA than the level of racism? You can say it over there but over here you have to be circumspect. You can't call someone a dirty Jew but dirty Zionist is acceptable to some in UK politics apparently. If you doubt that then look to n the phrase "dog whistle". It has been used a fair bit in the UK about racism in the UK. I haven't really read much in US press about that phrase wrt racism and speech.

Race is a bit deal everywhere it's just got different ways to treat the utterances of the abhorrent sorts to the extreme ends of political spectrum and society.

BTW comparison of political leaders across countries is a valid discussion point. Trump isn't a discussion point on his own. He's part of the global political scene. No country is going to have exactly the same dodgy political leader. There can be patterns to their style though. Trump and Bolsanaro for example.

But even trump and BJ. The popularism has some similarities, within national differences. UK isn't a brash with its leaders so BJ too won't be as in your face as trump.

Where could things end? Well look east perhaps? Not Putin but Orban? Could the Western europe get its Orban?

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Jul 2019, 8:37am

I think that one Oban is sufficient. Nice place :)

pwa
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby pwa » 18 Jul 2019, 8:42am

Bonefishblues wrote:I think that one Oban is sufficient. Nice place :)

I suggest we all cleanse our minds by thinking about Oban for five minutes! :D

Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Jul 2019, 8:55am

Not very nice campsites. One looked like it was trying to become good about 15 years ago and ran out of money. A great big kids playground that's now broken and unsafe. It doesn't look that old just never cared for.

Nope. Oban is somewhere you go to to get somewhere else IMHO.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6723
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Jul 2019, 9:08am

Tangled Metal wrote:Not very nice campsites. One looked like it was trying to become good about 15 years ago and ran out of money. A great big kids playground that's now broken and unsafe. It doesn't look that old just never cared for.

Nope. Oban is somewhere you go to to get somewhere else IMHO.

You're happy this morning :wink:

Vorpal
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Vorpal » 18 Jul 2019, 9:13am

Tangled Metal wrote:Isn't that more to do with freedom of speech in USA than the level of racism? You can say it over there but over here you have to be circumspect. You can't call someone a dirty Jew but dirty Zionist is acceptable to some in UK politics apparently. If you doubt that then look to n the phrase "dog whistle". It has been used a fair bit in the UK about racism in the UK. I haven't really read much in US press about that phrase wrt racism and speech.

As someone who grew up in the US, racism has always been there. Even though I have a very diverse family, and have always had diverse groups of friends, I learned racist things as part of the culture. Some, I learned better because of friends and family. Other things, I learned better by other means, such as political activism. 20 years ago, I thought that things were getting better, at least in northern cities, it seemed urban areas were becoming more integrated, I saw more interracial couples, more diverse groups of friends together, etc. My diverse groups of friends got fewer comments in public places, etc. I hadn't had anyone call me a 'nigger lover' since the late 80s. I honestly thought that when people made racist comments about the area where I lived, that they were a tiny minority of folks who didn't yet understand.

Now, I know better. Now I know that they were just hiding and biding their time.

p.s. if you haven't seen 'dog whistle' in American media, I suggest you try some other sources. I've certainly seen the term.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

reohn2
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jul 2019, 9:18am

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:I believe that the fact that he is still popular with a large section of US society reflects very badly on the country. Why can't they see what the rest of us can see?

There are certain parallels with another subject and the potential PM in this country.
Why can't people in the UK see the folly in the direction this country is heading?

I think we all agree on Trump. Why muddle it with the Tory leadership campaign? Okay, neither of us think BJ is in the "glorious leader" category (understatement) but if BJ were just a journalist I would find him amusing and wouldn't be bothered by him too much. Trump's defects are on an entirely different scale. He is a really nasty piece of work who will verbally attack anyone who disagrees with him, saying the nastiest and most personal things with no restraint. BJ's gaffs do not compare. And yes, I am thinking about the letterbox thing. If he had worded that better I would have agreed with him on the desirability of ethnic minorities integrating to the benefit of social cohesion. Trump does not want ethnic minorities to integrate. He does not want ethnic minorities at all. So let's not try to drag our own political scene into this? Trump is a topic on his own. I have seen some poor or despicable politicians over the years, but nothing like Trump. At least, not in a Western democracy.

I'm muddling it with the Tory Leadership campaign because it's a similar,Trump got to be PotUS by a technicality when a minority of the people voted for him.
BoJo is set become PM on the possibility of a vote of 80,001 members of a minority political party the cross section of which in no way represents the electorate of the UK,a minority party that bought the support of an evenmore obscure right wing party for £2billion to gain a very slim majority in parliament.
Look where that party(sic)has led us over the past decade!
But back to BoJo,a man who can't lie straight in bed let alone tell the truth,who claims African women have "picaniny watermelon smiles" Muslim women who wear the Burka look like "letterboxes",when Foreign Sec secured a place in an Iranian jail of at least one UK citizen by his total mishandling a very delicate situation.
Who's private life looks more like a raging battle in which at least one child he fathered he tried to ignore or claim wasn't his,heaven knows why his long suffering wife put up with such a monster for so long with his many affairs,which leaves us with the current woman he lives with or doesn't is anyone's guess.
A failed mayor of London leaving a shambles of broken promises and misspending of public money and disasterous ihalfbaked ideas in his wake
BoJo is a toned down version of Trump,not as overt granted,but the similarities of charachter are there for all to see and he'll be every bit as much a disaster on the world stage as Trump is proving for the US.
Last edited by reohn2 on 18 Jul 2019, 9:28am, edited 1 time in total.
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pwa
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby pwa » 18 Jul 2019, 9:24am

reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:There are certain parallels with another subject and the potential PM in this country.
Why can't people in the UK see the folly in the direction this country is heading?

I think we all agree on Trump. Why muddle it with the Tory leadership campaign? Okay, neither of us think BJ is in the "glorious leader" category (understatement) but if BJ were just a journalist I would find him amusing and wouldn't be bothered by him too much. Trump's defects are on an entirely different scale. He is a really nasty piece of work who will verbally attack anyone who disagrees with him, saying the nastiest and most personal things with no restraint. BJ's gaffs do not compare. And yes, I am thinking about the letterbox thing. If he had worded that better I would have agreed with him on the desirability of ethnic minorities integrating to the benefit of social cohesion. Trump does not want ethnic minorities to integrate. He does not want ethnic minorities at all. So let's not try to drag our own political scene into this? Trump is a topic on his own. I have seen some poor or despicable politicians over the years, but nothing like Trump. At least, not in a Western democracy.

I'm muddling it with the Tory Leadership campaign because it's a similar,Trump got to be PotUS by a technicality and a minority the people voted for him.BoJo is set become PM on the vote of 80,001 votes of a cross section of the electorate that in no way represents the UK electorate,a the leader of a minority party that bought the support of an evenmore right wing party to gain a very slim majority in parliament.
Look where that has led us.
But back to BoJo,a man who can't lie straight in bed let alone tell the truth,claims African women have "picaniny watermelon smiles" Muslim women who wear the Burka look like "letterboxes",when Foreign Sec secured a place in an Iranian jail of at least one UK citizen by his total mishandling of a very delicate situation.Who's private life looks like a raging battle in which at least one child he fathered he tried to ignore or claim wasn't his,heaven knows why his long suffering wife put up with such monster for so long,which leaves with the current woman he lives with or doesn't which anyone's guess.A failed mayor of London leaving a shambles of broken promises and mis spending of public money in his wake
BoJo is a toned down version of Trump,not as overt granted but the similarities of charachter are there for all to see and he'll be every bit as much a disaster on the world stage as Trump is for the US.

I see Bojo as incompetent, gaff-prone and sometimes blind to sensitivities, but he lacks one crucial thing that Trump has in spades. Spite.

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Cugel
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Cugel » 18 Jul 2019, 9:27am

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:I believe that the fact that he is still popular with a large section of US society reflects very badly on the country. Why can't they see what the rest of us can see?

There are certain parallels with another subject and the potential PM in this country.
Why can't people in the UK see the folly in the direction this country is heading?

I think we all agree on Trump. Why muddle it with the Tory leadership campaign? Okay, neither of us think BJ is in the "glorious leader" category (understatement) but if BJ were just a journalist I would find him amusing and wouldn't be bothered by him too much. Trump's defects are on an entirely different scale. He is a really nasty piece of work who will verbally attack anyone who disagrees with him, saying the nastiest and most personal things with no restraint. BJ's gaffs do not compare. And yes, I am thinking about the letterbox thing. If he had worded that better I would have agreed with him on the desirability of ethnic minorities integrating to the benefit of social cohesion. Trump does not want ethnic minorities to integrate. He does not want ethnic minorities at all. So let's not try to drag our own political scene into this? Trump is a topic on his own. I have seen some poor or despicable politicians over the years, but nothing like Trump. At least, not in a Western democracy.


Excusing Trump as a mere manifestation of domestic US politics that we don't really understand, as one poster has done, is rather kind to Trump. Trump is an actor on the international political stage, with perhaps the leading role on that stage. His attitudes and behaviours affect us all to a significant degree.

For we British, Trump has an even greater presence, as we have long been a virtual 51st State in terms of the huge impact American mores and behaviours have on how we too come to think and behave. The impact of the Yank cultural imperialism is a large and malign force in Britain and has been for decades. Even now, BoJo, Farage and others of that ilk are aping Trump. His white supremacy narrative is gaining ground in mainstream British politics too, as the far right, neo-nazis, out & out racists, islamophobes, anti-semites and others of that hue are emboldened.

Trump is an international model for the rise of neo-fascism within democratic nation-states. He is normalising racism and misogyny, total intolerance and the notion of The Strong Man who will persecute and eliminate anyone not-us. He advocates and practices intolerance of every kind, with followers and supporters very glad to have him set free their formerly repressed nastiness. He's a metastasizing political cancer in not just the US body-politic but that of the international world.

As the next US Presidential election hoves into media-view, he will amplify his winning ways of intolerance, racism and misogyny. Vast numbers of US voters will respond with glee. Abroad, especially in Britain but also many other European democracies, the Trump-fan gharks and hoos will crawl even further out of their rotten woodwork to choose their own mini-Trump, a number of which are already vying for the approval of the mob.

Cugel
Last edited by Cugel on 18 Jul 2019, 9:31am, edited 1 time in total.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Jul 2019, 9:28am

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:I think we all agree on Trump. Why muddle it with the Tory leadership campaign? Okay, neither of us think BJ is in the "glorious leader" category (understatement) but if BJ were just a journalist I would find him amusing and wouldn't be bothered by him too much. Trump's defects are on an entirely different scale. He is a really nasty piece of work who will verbally attack anyone who disagrees with him, saying the nastiest and most personal things with no restraint. BJ's gaffs do not compare. And yes, I am thinking about the letterbox thing. If he had worded that better I would have agreed with him on the desirability of ethnic minorities integrating to the benefit of social cohesion. Trump does not want ethnic minorities to integrate. He does not want ethnic minorities at all. So let's not try to drag our own political scene into this? Trump is a topic on his own. I have seen some poor or despicable politicians over the years, but nothing like Trump. At least, not in a Western democracy.

I'm muddling it with the Tory Leadership campaign because it's a similar,Trump got to be PotUS by a technicality and a minority the people voted for him.BoJo is set become PM on the vote of 80,001 votes of a cross section of the electorate that in no way represents the UK electorate,a the leader of a minority party that bought the support of an evenmore right wing party to gain a very slim majority in parliament.
Look where that has led us.
But back to BoJo,a man who can't lie straight in bed let alone tell the truth,claims African women have "picaniny watermelon smiles" Muslim women who wear the Burka look like "letterboxes",when Foreign Sec secured a place in an Iranian jail of at least one UK citizen by his total mishandling of a very delicate situation.Who's private life looks like a raging battle in which at least one child he fathered he tried to ignore or claim wasn't his,heaven knows why his long suffering wife put up with such monster for so long,which leaves with the current woman he lives with or doesn't which anyone's guess.A failed mayor of London leaving a shambles of broken promises and mis spending of public money in his wake
BoJo is a toned down version of Trump,not as overt granted but the similarities of charachter are there for all to see and he'll be every bit as much a disaster on the world stage as Trump is for the US.

I see Bojo as incompetent, gaff-prone and sometimes blind to sensitivities, but he lacks one crucial thing that Trump has in spades. Spite.

Although I thought the audio of he and Darius Guppy plotting to harm a journalist was chilling, personally.

reohn2
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jul 2019, 9:30am

pwa wrote:I see Bojo as incompetent, gaff-prone and sometimes blind to sensitivities, but he lacks one crucial thing that Trump has in spades. Spite.

Don't you believe it,he isn't in the top job yet!
The man's a disgrace!
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pwa
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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby pwa » 18 Jul 2019, 9:47am

reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:I see Bojo as incompetent, gaff-prone and sometimes blind to sensitivities, but he lacks one crucial thing that Trump has in spades. Spite.

Don't you believe it,he isn't in the top job yet!
The man's a disgrace!

Quite a few in Parliament at the moment are a disgrace. But the vitriol of Trump is rare in mainstream UK politics.

andrec
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Joined: 1 Jul 2019, 12:35pm

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Postby andrec » 18 Jul 2019, 9:49am

The rules of the game are that anyone can call President Trump a fascist, a racist, an Islamophobe, a [moderated] etc, and even say he is the new Hilter, and he is required to remain diplomatically silent, presidential.

But he's torn up the rule book and his opponents simply can't cope. It is enjoyable to witness.