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Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 7 Oct 2020, 3:44pm
by pete75
Tangled Metal wrote:Sorry. Thought we were talking about taxation and avoidance/evasion. I must have missed the point where I started sleep typing into social matters. The conversation was about trump and tax evasion or avoidance and your shoehorning Tory bashing into that. I made the point that it's human nature and been in existence as long as taxation has which in case you hadn't realised longer than the Tory party has been in existence. Can't blame human's nature to avoid paying out if they can on the Tories.

Do you know anyone who has paid more tax than they were asked for under the rules? It is actually possible to arrange that without gaining any benefit for yourself. Being a social guy I bet you're going to tell me you have negotiated overpayment with HMRC.

Personally I've got ISAs and pension so am guilty of tax avoidance. I am also guilty of benefits avoidance. I've decided a few times to not claim benefits because I was managing without. Tax credits a few times and unemployment benefits a few times. A right winger practising what he preaches perhaps???

As to the rest of your argument not tax related I'm simply not going to encourage that diatribe you like to spit out.


There are tax concessions on pensions and ISAs as an encouragement for people to enrol in a pension scheme and/or save a little. Both desirable behaviours which the government thinks worth encouraging. For you to equate people doing either with large scale tax avoidance by wealthy individuals and companies is dissembling at best.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 7 Oct 2020, 3:56pm
by Tangled Metal
I'm not equating anything in terms of impact only that it's still avoidance / evasion with the same root cause behind it to keep more if what is yours. I am not the one making specific value judgements. Are you saying that pensions are being used purely to save money? They're being used as a tax efficient way of saving money. Tax efficiency is avoidance. If I'm equating anything it's the greed aspect that isn't related to the amount concerned or who is involved which I'll leave to you to discourse on.

Reducing one's tax bill is greed no matter how much is involved or how you go about it. Taxation is for the greater good I'm sure you'll agree so does that make any tax avoidance wrong?

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 7 Oct 2020, 4:29pm
by PDQ Mobile
Tangled Metal wrote: Tax efficiency is avoidance.


There you go.
War is peace!

Trumpian economics are ok in your book.
Any way to make money is ok.
It is the simple making of money that overrides everything.
Including the trampling of the poor and less able.

I take another view.


To have so much debt as Trump and to live such a lifestyle is actually the root of all evil in terms of a sound economic foundation. IMV.
Excessive consumption based on nothing.

On such a scale it threatens us all.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 7 Oct 2020, 10:49pm
by windmiller
No matter how hard "the Trump is mad routine" performs, it pales into Insignificance when compared to the frothing pseudo religious zeal of many of his holier than thou haters.
Trump is a narcissist but far from mad, he knows exactly what he is doing and how the Not in My Name! - wailing of his opposition will be viewed by the majority of people who are weaned from the bosom of self righteous indignation.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 7 Oct 2020, 11:03pm
by reohn2
windmiller wrote:No matter how hard "the Trump is mad routine" performs, it pales into Insignificance when compared to the frothing pseudo religious zeal of many of his holier than thou haters.
Trump is a narcissist but far from mad, he knows exactly what he is doing and how the Not in My Name! - wailing of his opposition will be viewed by the majority of people who are weaned from the bosom of self righteous indignation.

You really do need to stop playing that game :lol: :lol: :lol:
He's a parasite and his deluded followers are the same,his economics mean the wealth goes to the few and the rest get the cumbs handed down to them.
You're like me,a worthless pleb to the Trumps of this world,and as such worth nothing but to serve their whims and fancies.
You'll be telling me he was democratically elected next.....

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 7 Oct 2020, 11:13pm
by windmiller
reohn2 wrote:
windmiller wrote:No matter how hard "the Trump is mad routine" performs, it pales into Insignificance when compared to the frothing pseudo religious zeal of many of his holier than thou haters.
Trump is a narcissist but far from mad, he knows exactly what he is doing and how the Not in My Name! - wailing of his opposition will be viewed by the majority of people who are weaned from the bosom of self righteous indignation.

You really do need to stop playing that game :lol: :lol: :lol:
He's a parasite and his deluded followers are the same,his economics mean the wealth goes to the few and the rest get the cumbs handed down to them.
You're like me,a worthless pleb to the Trumps of this world,and as such worth nothing but to serve their whims and fancies.
You'll be telling me he was democratically elected next.....


:roll: er, thanks for proving my point.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 7:17am
by Tangled Metal
Oh do tell what Trumpian economics is. I doubt very much there is such a thing unless you think taking your few successful revenue streams weaved sinking all profits into propping up failing and failed business then putting those assets into hock to delay the collapse of those failed businesses by a short period of time. Actually there's some similarities with propping up a few banks in 2008 and trump wasn't in power then.

You seem to know what my views are PDQ. I keep making the point that we are all guilty of the greed behind tax avoidance/ evasion and you keep trying to make out I support trump somehow. Or support tax evasion. My point makes no judgement on magnitude of the avoidance/evasion as that is a separate point. However please feel free to make things up about my views, who I support and anything else you want to. I'm bowing out so you'll be free to carry on without me. I'm really not needed for that.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 8:23am
by reohn2
windmiller wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
windmiller wrote:No matter how hard "the Trump is mad routine" performs, it pales into Insignificance when compared to the frothing pseudo religious zeal of many of his holier than thou haters.
Trump is a narcissist but far from mad, he knows exactly what he is doing and how the Not in My Name! - wailing of his opposition will be viewed by the majority of people who are weaned from the bosom of self righteous indignation.

You really do need to stop playing that game :lol: :lol: :lol:
He's a parasite and his deluded followers are the same,his economics mean the wealth goes to the few and the rest get the cumbs handed down to them.
You're like me,a worthless pleb to the Trumps of this world,and as such worth nothing but to serve their whims and fancies.
You'll be telling me he was democratically elected next.....


:roll: er, thanks for proving my point.

Yer welcome :)

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 8:48am
by reohn2
Tangled Metal wrote:Oh do tell what Trumpian economics is. I doubt very much there is such a thing unless you think taking your few successful revenue streams weaved sinking all profits into propping up failing and failed business then putting those assets into hock to delay the collapse of those failed businesses by a short period of time. Actually there's some similarities with propping up a few banks in 2008 and trump wasn't in power then....

Sounds about right,otherwise known as the trickle down theory,goes under other names such as "the unlevel playing field" or "pssting down your back and telling you it's raining"
Take a look at the widening gap between rich and poor in the past forty years for example.
Not necessarily all attributable to Trump but he and his ilk are the perpetuators of it.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 10:12am
by ANTONISH
On a more cheerful note the wealth of billionaires has increased significantly in the past few months - there has been an increase in their numbers also.

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 10:13am
by reohn2
ANTONISH wrote:On a more cheerful note the wealth of billionaires has increased significantly in the past few months - there has been an increase in their numbers also.

Funny that......

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 10:36am
by ANTONISH
reohn2 wrote:
ANTONISH wrote:On a more cheerful note the wealth of billionaires has increased significantly in the past few months - there has been an increase in their numbers also.

Funny that......

I forgot to mention that the poor are getting poorer

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 10:40am
by Bonefishblues
ANTONISH wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
ANTONISH wrote:On a more cheerful note the wealth of billionaires has increased significantly in the past few months - there has been an increase in their numbers also.

Funny that......

I forgot to mention that the poor are getting poorer

I'm interested in those numbers - do you have a reference?

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 10:44am
by Jdsk
It's usually wise to separate distribution of wealth and income: the trends haven't been the same recently.

Jonathan

Re: Is Trump Mad?

Posted: 8 Oct 2020, 10:53am
by Pebble
reohn2 wrote:@Pebble
Trump played it like BoJo played it,initially denying it's seriousness and ferocity and allowing people entry into the country without isolation thereg0bye increasingnthe spread.
In the case of Trump carried on denying it's impact.The only thing that'll make this man aware of it's effect on humanity is by him becoming seriously ill and leaving him disabled in some way,even then he'll attempt to blame someone else.
Only last week was he claiming it was nothing to beconcerned about as it only affected the old....

The opportunity was squandered at the beginning of the the year when people were allowed in from all over the globe,bpth in the US and UK,the moronic attitude by Trump and BoJo is self evident and in the case of the UK the lack of action on and the burying of the Cygnus report has led to many needless deaths.
Look at the countries who took immediate action against the virus,the impact on their health and economies have been minimised,it's the countries with moronic leadership UK,US,Brazil,etc who are suffering the worst in this pandemic

Do you think it is down to the leaders or is it more to do with the natural way a population behaves ?

The countries that have fared badly seem to be the ones who tend not to follow rules when they don't agree with them, UK France Italy Spain US have never been sticklers to the letter of the law and the virus is running like wildfire. On the other hand Oriental countries who seem to have much greater respect for each other seem to have got it under control. Interestingly in Europe Germany seems to have done better than most, and they do like compliance with rules in Germany, for example; try crossing a road before the green light shows, other pedestrians are likely to rebuke you off even if there are no moving vehicles in sight.

As for the leaders, a good example is the UK, Nicola Sturgeon is well thought of her throughout the UK for her clear thinking, caring, compassion and decisive decisions surrounding the virus - but Scotland is not fairing any better than England, the scottish people have the same attitude to rules as the rest of the UK and are suffering equally with the pandemic.