Why is Russia so corrupt?

[thirdcrank]

Speaking from personal experience, I don't believe that a bung is necessary to pass a driving test, nor would the unsolicited offer convert a fail into a pass in this country. ie, I believe that at street level, corruption isn't routine. That's not to say it doesn't happen, just that it's unusual. More subtle things like nepotism and so on are much more widespread. Part of my reason for saying this is that when serious cases are exposed, those involved seem genuinely to believe that it was OK. I also hear suggestions that there's a lot of jiggery-pokery in "town planning" etc.

... and within a few years ...

Sometimes "before the week is out "

[Cyril Haearn]

I like to bribe people by being nice to them

I ask *may I tender the exact sum for my newspaper?*
The shop-person is surprised and we are both in a good mood for the rest of the day

[Vorpal]

Corruption in capitalist democracies such as Germany, the UK, the USA, etc., does not typically take the form of bribery, but instead takes the form of donations to political parties or charities, investment success, business deals, etc. We simply don't call it corruption.

TC has it right when he points out that it is the *perception* of corruption.

As far as I am concerned the money in politics, and the politicians in money, in many Western countries *is* corruption. If we were to define corruption in a different way, such as having investments in or business relationships with industries that are affected by legislation passed in government, 90% of our government officials would fail the test.

IMO, more citizens should serve in parliament, and those who serve should have to either divest themselves of business interests over a certain value, or place them in trust for the duration of their service, or use some other arrangement where an independent party has full control of the investments. In addition, there need to be some controls over what sort of jobs former government officials can take in industry after serving the government. We need an appropriate balance between knowledge, experience, and potential conflicts of interest. It is nonsensical to allow a government official to be key in passing banking legislation, then make millions working in the industry months later.

[Debs]

I believe the main reason why Russia is so rotten is because it's run by very nasty people, and that is the result of 20th century history. After WWII the Nazi leaders were brought to book at the Nuremberg Trials, and many of the worst forms of humanity were found guilty and quite rightly stung up on a rope.
However, the 'Soviets' due to reasons of them being 'allies' during WWII, remained unquestioned about the huge aray of ghastly atrocities they had committed though the 1930s and 1940s. If it came down to one man, Stalin would have a lot to answer for, possibly more than Hitler, but a country which has been allowed to evolve without any moral reality check is doomed to evolve into what we see today.
Corruption maybe seen as petty underhand dishonesty or sport cheating etc, but what we see and hear today is just the tip of a big ugly iceberg.

[mercalia]

The corruption is just more explicit and bald in Russia. Here it is covered in laws and rules loop holes found by lawyers and accountants? eg That fat cat chancellor of Bath uni with her wopping £800,000 payoff. The boardroom pay for top execs declaring you have to pay for top people in the market place. Ofcourse we have had the MP expences scandal and the House of Terds claiming expences for just clocking in. It helps we havent had a secret police who could make you disappear or have an accident...It sill operates viz that russian who fled to the UK and was killed with a radioactive cup of tea was it? We still have the bald type of corruption in the west - eg Fifa and possibly the olympics cartels? Atleast they wont send a hitman after you?

[bovlomov]

Good point - but that may not be 'day-to-day' life. I knew someone who lived in Italy for a while - they had to pay a bribe to get someone out to attend a suspected gas leak - I can't see that happening here, or in Germany, or in Norway etc...

I'm not sure how much of that sort of bribery goes on in Italy, but I know that their local (very local) government is rather susceptible. I believe it's the same in Spain. Where each village has its own mayor, or the local ward is small, politics is a family affair. Local gossip, nepotism and feuds dictate planning decisions and funding. I'm not talking about the Mafia.

Smaller government isn't always better government. But then, big government in Italy has its own problems.

[al_yrpal]

If you take the trouble to read the detailed history of Rome you would realise that all this corruption, patronage, pork barrel and bribery stuff is nothing new. To a greater or lesser extent it happens everywhere but as Debs asserted in Russia its more visible.

Al

[Psamathe]

Interesting comment from David Milliband the other day (I don't know where he got his figures from)

“In Germany in the last two weeks of the general election 90 per cent of social media tweets were from Russian bots.

Ian

[Ben@Forest]

Good point - but that may not be 'day-to-day' life. I knew someone who lived in Italy for a while - they had to pay a bribe to get someone out to attend a suspected gas leak - I can't see that happening here, or in Germany, or in Norway etc...

I'm not sure how much of that sort of bribery goes on in Italy, but I know that their local (very local) government is rather susceptible. I believe it's the same in Spain. Where each village has its own mayor, or the local ward is small, politics is a family affair. Local gossip, nepotism and feuds dictate planning decisions and funding. I'm not talking about the Mafia.

She taught English at a school somewhere in southern Italy. She loved Italy but found the petty corruption and nepotism rife. According to her jobs would routinely be given to family or friends who had no qualifications/experience to do them - though I think this related to support/admin/janitorial staff more than actual teachers. It was that reason which brought her back to the UK.

[bovlomov]

It was that reason which brought her back to the UK.

This subject has come up before - whether we are better or worse than them. I suppose the answer is always 'both'.

What has depressed me most about the way the EU is discussed in the UK is the lack of interest in how they do things differently to, and sometimes better than, us. It's as if nothing has been learned during all those billions of holidays spent there.

One thing I am happy to shout about, though, is our open society. I don't have to defer to the professor in social situations. If I can do a job well then I'm likely to be employed, even without any qualifications. I don't have to give my place in a queue to the man in a suit. New ideas are listened to. Weirdos aren't hounded out of town. That's London - I won't speak for the rest of the UK.

On reflection, I conclude that our education system is rubbish and our politicians are incompetent and corrupt. Our services are rubbish. Our population is ignorant and vindictive. In short, it's bloody rubbish here. But then, it's rubbish most other places too.

[ambodach]

One of my sons routinely worked on short term contracts in a variety of counties. Many of them seemed to involve backhanders of some kind being paid to government officials. In Italy some local difficulty got sorted very quickly by a man in a suit who never got out of his car. The local contacts refused to discuss the matter but provided instant cooperation. One job in Libya was abandoned because he was contracted to a UK university who were unable to ease the passage of equipment through customs. It seems to happen in one form or another in every country in the world.

[Psamathe]

Is it only Russia?

Prince Andrew stepping down as UK trade envoy amid criticism of friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and allegations of bribery
The duke also faced controversy after it emerged former Soviet republic Kazakhstan believed he would help the country to recruit British investors.

Kazakhstan, whose president’s son-in-law had previously bought the duke’s former marital home for £3 million (US$4.8 million) above the asking price, hoped that the duke would persuade London investors that the country was a sound place to do business.

Related to

Prince Andrew used his royal position to demand a special briefing from the Serious Fraud Office weeks before launching a tirade against the agency's "idiotic" investigators at a lunch with businessmen in Kyrgyzstan.

And

Soon after, believing he [Prince Andrew] was speaking in private to a group of sympathetic British businessmen, he appeared to condone bribery, and scorned the work of the SFO's anti-corruption investigators in investigating the Saudi royal family.

And

Court condemns Blair for halting Saudi arms inquiry
...
Tony Blair's government broke the law when it abandoned a fraud investigation into a multibillion-pound arms deal between BAE Systems and Saudi Arabia, the High Court ruled yesterday.

etc., etc.

Ian

[old_windbag]

In short, it's bloody rubbish here. But then, it's rubbish most other places too.

And one common factor unfortunately.

[bovlomov]

In short, it's bloody rubbish here. But then, it's rubbish most other places too.

And one common factor unfortunately.

Original Sin?

[Ben@Forest]

Is it only Russia?

Prince Andrew stepping down as UK trade envoy amid criticism of friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and allegations of bribery....

etc., etc.

Ian

This is of course the moral equivalence argument (which I'm sure RT - Russia Today) would make. No-one is saying that any country, its leaders, or businesses or just ordinary people are incorruptible, but by taking relatively small or extreme examples suggesting moral equivalence between that country and the country which has a far greater and sustained level of abuse, deception, and illegal activity.

We can see it quite clearly in the Wiggins TUE case vs Russian sport. Wiggins and Sky took what was allowable and used that loophole to the extreme. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth and it is disappointing, but it is not the moral equivalent of a state-sponsored systemic drug programme which saw probably tens of Russian athletes being part of a clearly illegal doping regime just in 2012 alone - ignoring the fact the the Soviets and Russians have been doing it on an industrial scale since WW2. And that is why the Russians won't be competing at the Winter Olympics.