Why is Russia so corrupt?

[Ben@Forest]

With the Brexit thread eerily quiet this morning I thought I'd bring up something that I've been wondering about for a while (and no doubt heightened by the recent declaration that Russia has been banned from the Winter Olympics because of systemic drug use) - but why can't Russia pull itself out of corruption and into a functioning democracy?

It's no exaggeration to say that though Russia has been and is often is westward looking it is the only one of those powers which has never achieved any sort of democracy, it is currently the 131st most corrupt country of 176 rankings according to the Corruption Perceptions Index and it is well recorded that getting anything done requires bribery. I do feel a small pang of sympathy when British businesses or people are accused of sharp practices in such countries (I once heard a series of such stories from someone working in Madagascar - currently 145 in the Index).

So why can't one of the great powers pull itself out of the mire - in everything from political freedom to sport?

[freeflow]

Corruption is what you get when you have un moderated human behaviour. The more correct question would be why is the UK relatively free of corruption.

[bovlomov]

So why can't one of the great powers pull itself out of the mire - in everything from political freedom to sport?

Swaddling. That's one reason I read about.

Inconsistent parenting. That's another one. The fathers veer from extreme harshness to overwhelming, sentimental kindness. The child learns that dealing with the father requires tricks rather than reason, and will never directly confront his power.

This attitude continues into politics. The leaders is the capricious and all-powerful father. The population takes the role of the child, trying to escape the worst excesses of the father, but not for a moment thinking that they could live without his brutish presence.

There's a novel - The History of a Town, by Saltikov. It was written in Tsarist times, and describes a town of idiots that is recruiting a new leader. The story follows from the townspeople's perception that, as idiots, they need someone who will knock them about a bit.

[Ben@Forest]

There's a novel - The History of a Town, by Saltikov. It was written in Tsarist times, and describes a town of idiots that is recruiting a new leader. The story follows from the townspeople's perception that, as idiots, they need someone who will knock them about a bit.

Yes - and there is of course 'The Government Inspector' by Gogol - lots about corruption in that. But I was, when living in Germany, told (by a German) that the part of the problem with Germans is that they do anything that someone in uniform tells them to do. But even so they have managed as a unified country to struggle to democracy.

[PDQ Mobile]

Yes - and there is of course 'The Government Inspector' by Gogol - lots about corruption in that. But I was, when living in Germany, told (by a German) that the part of the problem with Germans is that they do anything that someone in uniform tells them to do. But even so they have managed as a unified country to struggle to democracy.

That's mere stereotyping of the Germans an oft repeated statement with little foundation in fact.
In my experience the Germans are more likely to comment/complain (politely) about bad service from an organisation, whether uniformed or not, than we are in the UK.


We have become a nation of solitary mice when subject to poor service, to scared ( or maybe confused!) to say anything.

IMV (and I don't know much about Russia) the corruption starts right at the very top. You know who I mean! That is where it is santioned.

As for Brexit (not my thread drift) being quiet, well it's early days, not much is clear.
I welcome any move to give reciprocal and unchanged rights of all citizens. Whether free movement will continue is unclear, but now seems more likely in the broader form.

Indeed one might ask what has changed from full membership except we will lack our seat at the decision making and influencing Brussels table?

[Ben@Forest]

Yes - and there is of course 'The Government Inspector' by Gogol - lots about corruption in that. But I was, when living in Germany, told (by a German) that the part of the problem with Germans is that they do anything that someone in uniform tells them to do. But even so they have managed as a unified country to struggle to democracy.

That's mere stereotyping of the Germans an oft repeated statement with little foundation in fact.
In my experience the Germans are more likely to comment/complain (politely) about bad service from an organisation, whether uniformed or not, than we are in the UK.

As they say - all generalisations have a grain of truth. The man who told me that had a father who was in the Waffen SS during the war. But it isn't just the military - I think Germans will sit up and do what they're told by a tram conductress or a even a priest far more unquestioningly than a British person. And I did spend five years there.

[softlips]

Communism positively encouraged corruption. I remember going to Bulgaria etc years ago. The general public had to break the law to buy anything of value, either by obtaining £ or $ or by bribing others. It was a way of life.

[PDQ Mobile]

As they say - all generalisations have a grain of truth. The man who told me that had a father who was in the Waffen SS during the war. But it isn't just the military - I think Germans will sit up and do what they're told by a tram conductress or a even a priest far more unquestioningly than a British person. And I did spend five years there.

Yes, being told to do something by a tram conductor/ess is in many ways being social.
A sense of social responsibility.
"Civil courage".and tidiness, particularly in civic places, is an off-shoot of that attitude.
However the acceptance of bad and inefficient service is the other side of the coin.
Nothing wrong with a bit of feedback to authority if something's wrong no matter from what lowly level it emanates.
That is where you will see the Germans talk and discuss and ultimately complain. To uniformed or otherwise

We just sit in overcrowded dirty waiting rooms for hours and watch some inane midday TV.
Or just swear and behave badly.
It's not a creative solution.

Generalizations, yes exactly!

[Cyril Haearn]

Germany is quite steady and conservative, for example: paying in cash is still quite normal

We have a few people who know Germany, but how many know Russia?

[Ben@Forest]

Germany is quite steady and conservative, for example: paying in cash is still quite normal

We have a few people who know Germany, but how many know Russia?

Yes I've not been to Germany for a few years now but in 2011 and just because we were in the city we went to a big federal/international event. You could only pay the substantial entry fee by cash or German cheque. The queues (which we British love!!) were substantial.

[thirdcrank]

Bearing in mind this is the Corruption Perception Index - about which I know nothing - the question is perhaps "Why is Russia perceived to be so corrupt?" Of more interest to me is why is the UK perceived to be not corrupt? You only need skim through a copy of Private Eye to get some ideas. Broadly, those who benefit most define the term so their own conduct is "perfectly" legal, set the rules accordingly and are pretty quick to resort to defamation actions if anybody spills the beans. As Private Eye knows from experience.

[Ben@Forest]

Bearing in mind this is the Corruption Perception Index - about which I know nothing - the question is perhaps "Why is Russia perceived to be so corrupt?" Of more interest to me is why is the UK perceived to be not corrupt? You only need skim through a copy of Private Eye to get some ideas. Broadly, those who benefit most define the term so their own conduct is "perfectly" legal, set the rules accordingly and are pretty quick to resort to defamation actions if anybody spills the beans. As Private Eye knows from experience.

Obviously corruption is illegal, concealed and may not lead to prosecution but I think the organisation Transparency International carries out surveys which ask, for instance, if people have had to pay a bribe in the last year and so on. In north-western Europe very few bribes are paid in day-to-day life - but elsewhere it can be the norm.

https://ourworldindata.org/corruption/

[bovlomov]

In north-western Europe very few bribes are paid in day-to-day life - but elsewhere it can be the norm.

In the UK, a minister can privatise a service and within a few years be paid £300,000 p.a., working 2 days a month for a company that profited from his actions as minister. The head of HMRC can shake hands on a deal in an unminuted meeting, and then go directly to work for one of the big tax avoidance advisers. Press barons can provide advisers for the PM. Our corruption is so much more agreeable.

I'm not sure that illegality is a requirement for corruption, but in any case, many of these things ARE illegal. It's just that they aren't prosecuted - due to corruption.

[Ben@Forest]

In north-western Europe very few bribes are paid in day-to-day life - but elsewhere it can be the norm.

In the UK, a minister can privatise a service and within a few years be paid £300,000 p.a., working 2 days a month for a company that profited from his actions as minister. The head of HMRC can shake hands on a deal in an unminuted meeting, and then go directly to work for one of the big tax avoidance advisers. Press barons can provide advisers for the PM. Our corruption is so much more agreeable.

I'm not sure that illegality is a requirement for corruption, but in any case, many of these things ARE illegal. It's just that they aren't prosecuted - due to corruption.

Good point - but that may not be 'day-to-day' life. I knew someone who lived in Italy for a while - they had to pay a bribe to get someone out to attend a suspected gas leak - I can't see that happening here, or in Germany, or in Norway etc...

[al_yrpal]

I haven't been to Russia but I surmise its the same as Bulgaria. Under Communism you were not free to buy everything in a free market, therefore a black market and all that attended it flourished to supply prohibited items. It was the same here in WWII. Black Marketeers remained when Communism collapsed, and just carried on with various nefarious activities. Its happening in Venezuela again right now, Maduro attempting to control prices, a massive criminal underworld emerging - no bog paper, shortage of medicines, long queues for everything. Communism doesn't work and obviously leaves behind career criminals and a corrupt and rotten society.
There are pictures of Putin in today's papers, one with a pumped up chest brandishing a huge plastic gun and another riding an aggressive looking bear with a shield, spear and Russian flag. They worship the little quasi dictator and big him up as a strong man. Can you imagine us posting up images of our leaders like that? They seem to like dictators. Russia is still suffering the remains of the failed Communist legacy.

Al