Wi-Fi home security camera recommendations

[Abradable Chin]

A lot of people seem to be getting internet connected home security cameras, but I've noticed that some require a subscription service to store video, or they just record to an onboard SD card, which seems a bit dumb as a thief could just steal the camera or card.
I've seen kits that come with four cameras, so I'd also like to split the kit with a friend, as I would only really need one or two cameras. Are there any cameras that are an open standard so that I could send the video to anywhere I liked on a network, and that don't require proprietary software or base stations to work?

Or maybe they are just a hassle and a source of worry, have insufficient image quality, and the police don't take any notice of them. What are your thoughts and experiences?

[kwackers]

To I.D folk you need decent cameras. If you want to pick a face out 10 or 20 feet away then ideally 3 or 4 mega pixels minimum.
If its over a shed door and a few feet from their face then you can get away with 1 mega pixel.

Getting them to work well in the dark is an art. IR lights help but ideally they need to be separate illuminators rather than attached to the camera otherwise they trigger all the time with flying insects or spiders building webs across the front (which they love to do since the illuminator attracts flying insects which in turn attracts spiders).
(Google spiders + security camera for an idea of the scale of the problem).

If you're looking at a package are you sure you're not also getting a NVR? 'Proper' systems have a PVR like storage box which all the cameras plug into and which you can view on the web. Obviously if it comes with the NVR you can't split that (but you could buy another).

Most modern cameras are IP cameras usually with the power provided (power over ethernet) on the cable. Plugged into your network (using a switch that supports power over ethernet) you can see them as camera devices and do whatever you want with them (including recording - but you'll need software for that of which there's a fair bit of choice) otherwise you can buy separate NVR's which provide the IP connections for however many cameras you need.

Wireless I have no experience of other than a general dislike of any 'critical' system that relies on it. All mine are wired (and use a NVR).

Cameras with online storage are all to my knowledge subscription based (or expensive such that the subscription is built into the price).
Decent hi-res cameras eat memory and online storage probably compresses the image a lot to store it so the quality may suffer (and you're continually uploading too).

IMO, buying decent cameras is the primary thing. If your router/switch already supports POE then you can just plug them into that to start and add an NVR later.
Cheapest way though is to buy a package.

[Pastychomper]

I'd agree that good (enough) cameras are important here, and add a few thoughts, though I'm no expert myself.

Firstly, Wi-Fi is not generally a good idea for security purposes. All wi-fi uses fairly low-powered radio signals, which are easily jammed using cheap, portable equipment by anyone who knows or looks up a bit about radio. At least with a well-planned wired setup, a thief would have to cross in front of your camera and find and cut a wire before you lose the picture.

Admittedly the average opportunist or drunk probably won't bother with such precautions, and they are also the least likely to cover their faces, so wireless cameras would still have some uses.

Secondly, infrared illumination is great for getting pictures of crooks (and wildlife), but can be dangerous if overdone. There are some impressive IR floodlights on the market now and they can do just as much damage to a dark-adapted eye as a similar visible light, except that the usual reflexes that would protect the eye don't work for light it can't see. I suspect that's one reason why a lot (though not all) of the more powerful IR sources include a bit of red light in their output. I'd be inclined to favour weak illumination plus a camera with a largish lens, though that would up the cost of the camera.

If you're looking to keep the cost down there's a lot you can do with a home PC and any of several free software packages (plus a camera of course). If you don't mind some more involved tinkering you could do worse than looking at the Raspberry Pi fora for ideas - security cameras have been a popular subject over there and a lot of the users like to do detailed write-ups of their projects.

[thirdcrank]

I'd recommend thinking hard about what you want to achieve here.

If you just want the deterrent effect, then any old thing will do, which is why there are so many dummies advertised. If you want to record evidence in the unfortunate event of a visit from the baddies, then the best available tech you can afford is the way to go. Of course, there is something of a double or even multiple bluff here, in that the internet isn't exclusive to the goodies and a lot of burglars know that there are plenty of fakes. Also, there's a possibility that prominent security suggests something worth nicking is being protected. It's hard for many people to think in the same way as an experienced crook. Also, time in custody is when the latest crime prevention trends can be discussed as well as ways to defeat them. As a pretty obvious example, HD footage of the top of a hoody pulled over the face isn't much help with ID (Think: gloves/ fingerprints.) You may have an excellent record of what happened but not "whodunnit."

On the question of hassle, that comes in different forms. There's the possibility of technological hassle, of course, when it's not as DIY as the advertisers suggest but there's also what I often call "getting involved" which a lot of people prefer to avoid. Whatever the attitude of the police to helmetcam footage from cyclists, they do seem to use CCTV footage quite a bit: every force website has clips of suspects caught on camera. I know from talking to people with CCTV that they get visits when crimes near their premises. If something of evidential value is recorded, you are "involved" like it or not. There are all sorts of ways in which the ID of witnesses is protected, but anybody looking at footage can soon work out the camera angle. Obviously, if it's your house that's been burgled, they know where that was, but I'm talking about your camera recording evidence of an offence on the street or at a neighbour's house.

[kwackers]

I'd recommend thinking hard about what you want to achieve here.

There's a story behind why I fitted some.

We'd just bought the house, a bungalow set in about half an acre (lots of places to hide) but set back from a quiet road and not overlooked.
I was woken about 3am by a noise in the attic; it sounded like a cat was up there moving around (I'd had a cat in there before so knew what it sounded like).
To get in my attic you can either use the trapdoor or you can get in via the garage which has a proper staircase leading to a room over the garage and the attic.

I tried to get back to sleep and ignore it but over then next 20 mins I could hear it moving around over my head so decided I'd have to go up there and flush it out.
I woke Ms Kwackers and told her to go into the 'study' and watch the garage door to see if it ran out whilst I tried to flush it out.
I went through the garage, up the stairs and was at the end of the attic walkway about 50 feet from the stairs armed with a small torch when I heard my missus shout "Steve (for that is my name) there's a man in the attic!".
I turned around and there at the top of the stairs was a guy dressed in nothing but a pair of boxers.

He claimed he needed help and "they're after me". He was obviously agitated so wishing I had a bigger torch I herded him out of the house and onto the drive, went inside and phoned the police. As the person on the end of the phone asked "where is he now" I heard my missus say "would you like a cup of tea?" and lo he was now sat down in the hall!
I told them he was in the house and within a few minutes there were 3 police cars on the drive and one blocking the gates.

Turns out he'd mixed his substances and lost the plot, ditched his clothes and mobile and run for it. The noise I heard wasn't in the attic at all but on the roof where he thought he'd hide and when I'd gone into the garage he's seen the light and legged in. So Ms Kwackers saw a naked bloke leg up the drive into the garage after me.
Coppers took him to hospital and when they came back to pick up their cars told me he was OK and unless I wanted to press charges that would be the end of it. (I didn't, I simply checked for damage and to make sure he hadn't dumped his stuff in the garden somewhere).

So that was why I fitted cameras, I found myself wondering if there where other ner-do-wells wondering around my house. I found the cameras to be reassuring and after having them fitted for the last 3 years I've never seen anyone who shouldn't have been there.
(They were also handy for spotting that a delivery guy had thrown a parcel over a set of side gates we never use, otherwise I might not have found that parcel for months!)

Incidentally Ms Kwackers claimed he looked vulnerable and non-threatening so she invited him in for a drink.
Kind hearted or naive?
Probably both.

[Psamathe]

I've no experience of security cameras abut have experience of installing network devices in "less convenient" places.

I'd guess that a security camera has to be located where it has good visibility of the area it is protecting/securing. I'd guess that this means it probably isn't close to a convenient mains socket and even if it is my experience of those Powerline (cabled ethernet over mains) devices is that they are unreliable (work for a bit but after a time still show a connection but don't pass data).

So as kwakers mentioned look at power over ethernet (which I'm sure many such cameras will support) and then on pricing check if the injector is included (and if not what type is needed) as they can add to the total cost. I've always gone for reputable POE injectors (more expensive) as they are left on 24/7 and so not something you want overheating ...

If you are technically oriented (and want/can do "a bit of a project") I believe Raspberry Pi with their standard camera offering can provide such a solution (using free/open source software) and thus you might be able to connect directly to the device (from remote location, probably needing fixed IP or DDNS, etc.) so might get away without a subscription. But you'd have to setup some sort of off-site realtime recording ... many considerations. A techy option that would need further investigation (not something I've looked into, just something I've come across).

Ian

[kwackers]

So as kwakers mentioned look at power over ethernet (which I'm sure many such cameras will support) and then on pricing check if the injector is included (and if not what type is needed) as they can add to the total cost. I've always gone for reputable POE injectors (more expensive) as they are left on 24/7 and so not something you want overheating ...

I would be inclined to buy a network switch that supports PoE. TBH though NVR's with network connections aren't that expensive and if you need to buy a switch it might be just as cheap to buy the NVR which sorts out most issues since it'll have an internal HD and can be accessed over the web etc if you need to.
If you're buying 4+ cameras, the NVR usually comes as part of the package and is effectively 'free'.

[Psamathe]

So as kwakers mentioned look at power over ethernet (which I'm sure many such cameras will support) and then on pricing check if the injector is included (and if not what type is needed) as they can add to the total cost. I've always gone for reputable POE injectors (more expensive) as they are left on 24/7 and so not something you want overheating ...

I would be inclined to buy a network switch that supports PoE. TBH though NVR's with network connections aren't that expensive and if you need to buy a switch it might be just as cheap to buy the NVR which sorts out most issues since it'll have an internal HD and can be accessed over the web etc if you need to.
If you're buying 4+ cameras, the NVR usually comes as part of the package and is effectively 'free'.

Last one I put in I looked at that but I was after a single device and the separate (quality) injector was quite a bit cheaper, but that was a couple of years ago and I'm sure product ranges have changed.

Is there a risk with "on-site recording" that any burglar seeing a CCTV camera would make sure they find and take/destroy the recording device? Burglar looks-up, sees camera recording him/her, so leave having shown your face or search out in the hope that it's a local recording device so you can remove that image of your face.

Ian

[kwackers]

Is there a risk with "on-site recording" that any burglar seeing a CCTV camera would make sure they find and take/destroy the recording device? Burglar looks-up, sees camera recording him/her, so leave having shown your face or search out in the hope that it's a local recording device so you can remove that image of your face.

Ian

I think if they were that way inclined they'd have hidden their face anyway.
My system isn't in an obvious place and I doubt a burglar would have time to make an exhaustive search of the premises. By which time I'd have been alerted, seen the video and that would have backed it up to whatever device I was looking at it on.

If I was concerned I could hook up a secondary system (Raspberry Pi or summat) that when the system is triggered automatically records the camera feeds etc. I have plenty of home automation stuff for that sort of thing.

Ultimately though, it's a house and not a bank. The camera / alarm etc are mainly for peace of mind.
If anyone is that bothered ringing the bell and smacking me over the head with a baseball bat is a lot simpler.

[thirdcrank]

... If anyone is that bothered ringing the bell and smacking me over the head with a baseball bat is a lot simpler.

It does occur to me that anybody wanting a mug shot of their burglar might do well to fit up something recording everybody who rang their doorbell. My reason for saying this is that it's a very common MO to see if anybody is in by knocking on the door/ ring the bell etc., and then making excuses or acting the salesman if the door is answered. They won't do that with a masked face, so long as the camera is low mounted, preferably discreetly.

[kwackers]

... If anyone is that bothered ringing the bell and smacking me over the head with a baseball bat is a lot simpler.

It does occur to me that anybody wanting a mug shot of their burglar might do well to fit up something recording everybody who rang their doorbell. My reason for saying this is that it's a very common MO to see if anybody is in by knocking on the door/ ring the bell etc., and then making excuses or acting the salesman if the door is answered. They won't do that with a masked face, so long as the camera is low mounted, preferably discreetly.

I use a ring pro.
Works a treat.
(You can also use it as an intercom but I don't bother)

[thirdcrank]

... I use a ring pro.
Works a treat.
(You can also use it as an intercom but I don't bother)

A bit too sophisticated for me to cope with I fear, but if I have understood the description correctly, you can used it to talk to the person on your doorstep via your mobile from anywhere you have a phone signal. If so, you could use it to con them that you were at home but in a "not today, thank you" frame of mind, even when you were a long way away. ie Hopefully, it would be effective against the MO I described.