Border Force volunteers?

[PDQ Mobile]

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/cocaine-worth-5-million-found-at-yorkshire-airfield-1-6961089 - Nov 2014
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/gun-running-gang-convicted-after-largest-seizure-of-automatic-we/ - Apr 2016

I also know for a fact that a very similar incident to the drugs find above happened at a remote Norfolk airfield many years ago (1997 - 2004?) and that if local gossip was to be believed they had not been intercepted in the first occurrence.

So that's two incidents in the last 3,years and another vague and uncitated from 20 years (1997-2004) ago.
3 in 20 years.

I am not saying it doesn't happen anyway, just that it's pretty rare on a scale of things.

Smuggling will always happen.
Most contraband(and illegal immigrants) probably do come in through the big ports though.

A few Dad's army volunteers with binoculars or badges round small ports will have little impact.

Arguably we would do better to continue to work with our European security forces to exchange information.
That is how the cited examples were probably apprehended.

[reohn2]

In the last couple of years substantial amounts of both drugs and guns have been seized from light aircraft and yachts arriving at very small airfields and small ports. I suppose the question is - how many don't they intercept?

Citation?
Needs citation.

How about the unwashed?
Perhaps they couldn't afford the fare?
Or were they just not "intercepted".

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/cocaine-worth-5-million-found-at-yorkshire-airfield-1-6961089 - Nov 2014
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/gun-running-gang-convicted-after-largest-seizure-of-automatic-we/ - Apr 2016

I also know for a fact that a very similar incident to the drugs find above happened at a remote Norfolk airfield many years ago (1997 - 2004?) and that if local gossip was to be believed they had not been intercepted in the first occurrence.

What concerns me are the one's that "slip through the net" at present and if that number would increase if the job of detection was given over to volunteers......

[Ben@Forest]

What concerns me are the one's that "slip through the net" at present and if that number would increase if the job of detection was given over to volunteers......

I don't know about your second point but the first is what I was trying to point out - simply that depending on whose stats you take on what sort of crime that about 20% to 40% of criminal activity is unreported or undetected. We know that some drug smuggling or gun running goes undetected until that drug hits the market or the weapons appear in an offence.

[PDQ Mobile]

Eighty people were stabbed to death in London last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42534127
Mostly very young people.
And other awful assaults.
Ruined lives.

This proposed "Border Force" will have no imact upon that -zilch.
Bad behaviour is partly a problem of deprivation.
Not only, but partly.
What we need is a reassessment of our priorities and the allocation of financial resources.
In housing and in education, provision of facilities (sport for example) for the young.

But we get a smokescreen of the "new" volunteer Border Force as a panacea for the ills that beset out island santioned by this terrible Govt., no doubt.

All our troubles come from "over the channel".
I, for one, don't buy that for one second.

[reohn2]

What concerns me are the one's that "slip through the net" at present and if that number would increase if the job of detection was given over to volunteers......

I don't know about your second point but the first is what I was trying to point out - simply that depending on whose stats you take on what sort of crime that about 20% to 40% of criminal activity is unreported or undetected. We know that some drug smuggling or gun running goes undetected until that drug hits the market or the weapons appear in an offence.

I made a point up thread about looking to making drugs legal.
Legalizing class A and B drugs would take the wind out of the sails of drug smugglers who also use some of those illegal weapons to fight out their turf wars between them.
Legalising such drugs means they're better controlled be clener and taxes can be gathered from them to treat those who can't handle their use,just my 2d's worth on the issue.
If anyone thinks this is "giving in" to drug use,have a chat with anyone below the age of 40 to get an idea how much the use of illegal drugs is available.

[Psamathe]

As you say, there are so many small airfields that are unattended most of the time anyway that anybody "up to no good" would know these unattended airfields and use them, maybe just landing, doing whatever they are up to then taking off again and landing elsewhere with "nothing to declare".

In the last couple of years substantial amounts of both drugs and guns have been seized from light aircraft and yachts arriving at very small airfields and small ports. I suppose the question is - how many don't they intercept?

Around me there are several "airstrips" used by light aircraft where most days (on an identified schedule) any light aircraft could land (and take-off again) without raising any suspicions and without being observed/noted by anybody.

If they are intercepting them with such quiet easy access airstrips available then I'd assume it is based on intelligence and/or stupidity.

Ian

[pwa]

Eighty people were stabbed to death in London last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42534127
Mostly very young people.
And other awful assaults.
Ruined lives.

This proposed "Border Force" will have no imact upon that -zilch.
Bad behaviour is partly a problem of deprivation.
Not only, but partly.
What we need is a reassessment of our priorities and the allocation of financial resources.
In housing and in education, provision of facilities (sport for example) for the young.

But we get a smokescreen of the "new" volunteer Border Force as a panacea for the ills that beset out island santioned by this terrible Govt., no doubt.

All our troubles come from "over the channel".
I, for one, don't buy that for one second.

"We have these important problems so we can't deal with that one" is just throwing your hands in the air and giving up. We have to deal with housing, education, crime on the streets, bad driving and, yes, border issues. Border issues include gun smuggling, people trafficking, the movement of terrorists and the illegal movement of animals and animal parts. All those things matter, and dealing with them costs something, which we should pay.

[reohn2]

Eighty people were stabbed to death in London last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42534127
Mostly very young people.
And other awful assaults.
Ruined lives.

This proposed "Border Force" will have no imact upon that -zilch.
Bad behaviour is partly a problem of deprivation.
Not only, but partly.
What we need is a reassessment of our priorities and the allocation of financial resources.
In housing and in education, provision of facilities (sport for example) for the young.

But we get a smokescreen of the "new" volunteer Border Force as a panacea for the ills that beset out island santioned by this terrible Govt., no doubt.

All our troubles come from "over the channel".
I, for one, don't buy that for one second.

"We have these important problems so we can't deal with that one" is just throwing your hands in the air and giving up. We have to deal with housing, education, crime on the streets, bad driving and, yes, border issues. Border issues include gun smuggling, people trafficking, the movement of terrorists and the illegal movement of animals and animal parts. All those things matter, and dealing with them costs something, which we should pay.

Don't forget the drugs,turf wars over drug dealing territories amounts to a lot of the gun and knife crime committed by young people on each other.

[PDQ Mobile]

Eighty people were stabbed to death in London last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42534127
Mostly very young people.
And other awful assaults.
Ruined lives.

This proposed "Border Force" will have no imact upon that -zilch.
Bad behaviour is partly a problem of deprivation.
Not only, but partly.
What we need is a reassessment of our priorities and the allocation of financial resources.
In housing and in education, provision of facilities (sport for example) for the young.

But we get a smokescreen of the "new" volunteer Border Force as a panacea for the ills that beset out island santioned by this terrible Govt., no doubt.

All our troubles come from "over the channel".
I, for one, don't buy that for one second.

"We have these important problems so we can't deal with that one" is just throwing your hands in the air and giving up. We have to deal with housing, education, crime on the streets, bad driving and, yes, border issues. Border issues include gun smuggling, people trafficking, the movement of terrorists and the illegal movement of animals and animal parts. All those things matter, and dealing with them costs something, which we should pay.

IMHO the customs and border force already do those things rather well and fairly.
Earlier cited convictions demonstate that.

Are you suggesting the "volunteer" force now start looking at the welfare of animals in transit?
On top of watching for yachts manned by unwashed sailing novices crossing the channel?
There will always be illicit movement of the things you mention as long as society is so totally mobile. Millions of goods and people move around borders every day.
Most smuggling comes through the major ports and airports, IMV.
The idea of some new volunteer force that will take us all back to some utopia of no immigration and no smuggling, is just a sop and propaganda.
A smokescreen for the true ills of our society

[pwa]

Eighty people were stabbed to death in London last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42534127
Mostly very young people.
And other awful assaults.
Ruined lives.

This proposed "Border Force" will have no imact upon that -zilch.
Bad behaviour is partly a problem of deprivation.
Not only, but partly.
What we need is a reassessment of our priorities and the allocation of financial resources.
In housing and in education, provision of facilities (sport for example) for the young.

But we get a smokescreen of the "new" volunteer Border Force as a panacea for the ills that beset out island santioned by this terrible Govt., no doubt.

All our troubles come from "over the channel".
I, for one, don't buy that for one second.

"We have these important problems so we can't deal with that one" is just throwing your hands in the air and giving up. We have to deal with housing, education, crime on the streets, bad driving and, yes, border issues. Border issues include gun smuggling, people trafficking, the movement of terrorists and the illegal movement of animals and animal parts. All those things matter, and dealing with them costs something, which we should pay.

IMHO the customs and border force already do those things rather well and fairly.
Earlier cited convictions demonstate that.

Are you suggesting the "volunteer" force now start looking at the welfare of animals in transit?
On top of watching for yachts manned by unwashed sailing novices crossing the channel?
There will always be illicit movement of the things you mention as long as society is so totally mobile. Millions of goods and people move around borders every day.
Most smuggling comes through the major ports and airports, IMV.
The idea of some new volunteer force that will take us all back to some utopia of no immigration and no smuggling, is just a sop and propaganda.
A smokescreen for the true ills of our society

You confuse me with someone who does want volunteers doing that. I don't. I very much doubt that using volunteers would be a good idea. I want professionals, perhaps also doing other jobs if they work in a location that does not need them to be doing border security functions all the time. Nobody, I imagine, envisages a Utopia. We just want to deal with border issues reasonably effectively. Not instead of dealing with other issues, but in addition to.

[PDQ Mobile]

I thought our border and customs officers did/do deal with border issues effectively?
4000 people living in squalid conditions outside the Port of Calais is a testament to that!
They were desperate to enter as well.

Mostly the ones here, are here perfectly legally, having entered by simply showing a passport.

Volunteer Border Force is a silly smokescreen for other ills.IMHO

[kwackers]

"We have these important problems so we can't deal with that one" is just throwing your hands in the air and giving up. We have to deal with housing, education, crime on the streets, bad driving and, yes, border issues. Border issues include gun smuggling, people trafficking, the movement of terrorists and the illegal movement of animals and animal parts. All those things matter, and dealing with them costs something, which we should pay.

You have to ask yourself, where's the cash to be made in border control?
Answer; there is none or at least not enough to be worth bothering with. If there was any cash they'd privatise it, failing that it's probably volunteers or nothing.

If you want money spent on social stuff and basic infrastructure then you need a population that wants it and will vote in a government that will deliver it. I doubt that's likely any time soon.

[reohn2]

What concerns me are the one's that "slip through the net" at present and if that number would increase if the job of detection was given over to volunteers......

I don't know about your second point but the first is what I was trying to point out - simply that depending on whose stats you take on what sort of crime that about 20% to 40% of criminal activity is unreported or undetected. We know that some drug smuggling or gun running goes undetected until that drug hits the market or the weapons appear in an offence.

Nor me,though IMO I suspect a paid and fully trained proffessional would do a better job than a volunteer

[mjr]

Around me there are several "airstrips" used by light aircraft where most days (on an identified schedule) any light aircraft could land (and take-off again) without raising any suspicions and without being observed/noted by anybody.

It's the same across Norfolk and the Wash area. As long as they don't do it in sight of the military bases or training ranges like Marham and Holbeach, or larger commercial ports like Lynn, I think there's plenty of small airstrips and beach jetties where small aircraft and boat landings would almost certainly take place unobserved. They probably can't bring many people in without it being suspicious, but small item smuggling seems easier to stash and slowly remove.

On the general topic of volunteer border guards, does it make anyone else think of this?
[youtube]8nxo0fS2VMM[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nxo0fS2VM

I'm also reminded of the Hitchhikers phrase that anyone who wants to do this job probably shouldn't be allowed to do it.

[kwackers]

Around me there are several "airstrips" used by light aircraft where most days (on an identified schedule) any light aircraft could land (and take-off again) without raising any suspicions and without being observed/noted by anybody.

You'd be surprised just how on the ball they actually are.
I remember being accosted by a Special Branch officer at my local airfield who was chasing an aircraft. They seemed pretty clued up about who they were after and when he'd used the airfield.

Flying 'under the radar' is I suspect a bit harder than you might think, not that I don't think it happens but I reckon the numbers are pretty small. I think by the time you got to the 'organised' stage they'd be well on to you.