BBC and other fat cats Pay - more than the PM!

[Tangled Metal]

OK. Unions are the saviours of the nhs?! Unions benefitted from new Labour spending but that's not saving anything. Whilst the credit crunch has a lot to do with the current situation but new Labour overspend on various public services hasn't helped.

And let's look at the 70s to see what the unions and the socialist side are capable of.

Our politics are obviously different and we'll never agree even the basics so perhaps best leave this debate alone.

The one thing I do admire about you is your strong belief in your politics. There is no doubt in your heart about it being the right way. I don't have strong views like you, no party to support come what may. I decide election by election who to vote for. Mostly my decision is based on voting for the centre age against more extreme views. Unfortunately we're in an era of extremes. New old labour or right wing tory. No centrist party I can support. Both main parties are a dead loss for the nation IMHO.

[softlips]

Who was responsible for the formation of the NHS?
A clue,it wasn't the Tories.

The NHS would have been set up whoever was in power post war. Churchill (Tory) appointed Beveridge (Liberal) to report on health and social care post war. From this Henry Willink (Tory) produced a white paper proposing a national health service, indeed this was the first time that term had been used. This white paper didn't get passed, one notable person against it was someone named Bevan (Labour) who felt the government should not employ doctors. The Tories lost the next election, Bevan took the white paper of Willink and the only change made was the make GPS self employed - which many still are.

[Bonefishblues]

And let's look at the 70s to see what the unions and the socialist side are capable of.

I don't particularly want to enter the fray, but in respect of the above statement, one must remember that "capital" and management was pretty awful in the UK at this time, too.

[broadway]

Rather depends on how the person fulfils their role. I can certainly say I think Cameron didn't earn his salary. The jury is still out with May.

May earning her salary, that's a joke I assume.

[kwackers]

May earning her salary, that's a joke I assume.

I think she's way out of her depth but I don't begrudge her the money. I wouldn't touch her job with a barge pole for twice the cash.
She has to deliver the impossible to the ungrateful with the support of backstabbing career folk and she frankly doesn't have the ability, personality or presence.
But; I haven't a clue who could pull off what she's supposed to be doing. It seems to me we've driven the country so far into the brink it's difficult to see a way back.

Now if Maggie Thatcher had been in charge then as much as I detested her there would have been real movement, heads on spikes and a much more entertaining spectacle.

[reohn2]

The NHS would have been set up whoever was in power post war. Churchill (Tory) appointed Beveridge (Liberal) to report on health and social care post war. From this Henry Willink (Tory) produced a white paper proposing a national health service, indeed this was the first time that term had been used. This white paper didn't get passed, one notable person against it was someone named Bevan (Labour) who felt the government should not employ doctors. The Tories lost the next election, Bevan took the white paper of Willink and the only change made was the make GPS self employed - which many still are.

So which government formed the NHS,and who formed that party?

[reohn2]

OK. Unions are the saviours of the nhs?! Unions benefitted from new Labour spending but that's not saving anything. Whilst the credit crunch has a lot to do with the current situation but new Labour overspend on various public services hasn't helped.

And let's look at the 70s to see what the unions and the socialist side are capable of.

Our politics are obviously different and we'll never agree even the basics so perhaps best leave this debate alone.

The one thing I do admire about you is your strong belief in your politics. There is no doubt in your heart about it being the right way. I don't have strong views like you, no party to support come what may. I decide election by election who to vote for. Mostly my decision is based on voting for the centre age against more extreme views. Unfortunately we're in an era of extremes. New old labour or right wing tory. No centrist party I can support. Both main parties are a dead loss for the nation IMHO.

Probably best as we may fall out.
But I was a miner in the 70's and 80's which formed certain opinions of the Tories,ever been down a pit lad?

[reohn2]

May earning her salary, that's a joke I assume.

I think she's way out of her depth but I don't begrudge her the money. I wouldn't touch her job with a barge pole for twice the cash.
She has to deliver the impossible to the ungrateful with the support of backstabbing career folk and she frankly doesn't have the ability, personality or presence.
But; I haven't a clue who could pull off what she's supposed to be doing. It seems to me we've driven the country so far into the brink it's difficult to see a way back.

Now if Maggie Thatcher had been in charge then as much as I detested her there would have been real movement, heads on spikes and a much more entertaining spectacle.

I can't argue with that

[Tangled Metal]

OK. Unions are the saviours of the nhs?! Unions benefitted from new Labour spending but that's not saving anything. Whilst the credit crunch has a lot to do with the current situation but new Labour overspend on various public services hasn't helped.

And let's look at the 70s to see what the unions and the socialist side are capable of.

Our politics are obviously different and we'll never agree even the basics so perhaps best leave this debate alone.

The one thing I do admire about you is your strong belief in your politics. There is no doubt in your heart about it being the right way. I don't have strong views like you, no party to support come what may. I decide election by election who to vote for. Mostly my decision is based on voting for the centre age against more extreme views. Unfortunately we're in an era of extremes. New old labour or right wing tory. No centrist party I can support. Both main parties are a dead loss for the nation IMHO.

Probably best as we may fall out.
But I was a miner in the 70's and 80's which formed certain opinions of the Tories,ever been down a pit lad?

Yes actually. Studied mining at university as it happens. Got to go down a couple of mines from coal to really old lead mine. Ten to fifteen years before I graduated my career path would have either been working for coal industry here or heading off to Africa to various resource rich areas.

As I said our opinions on political matters are different, polar opposites I would bet. I see a lot of the destruction of coal industry needs to be laid at the unions door too. Scargill was crazy. At the time (barely old enough to remember so read up a bit on it and spoke to people who did know about those events) I believe there was a rail union going down the path of the NUM in knocking heads with the government. The leader of that rail union did not follow Scargill into strikes because it was a battle he knew they'd lose. He took a brave decision and as a result there is still a strong rail union able to act in the interests of its members.

The miners were never going to win. The industry had an opportunity to regroup and survive. For that to happen it needed union and government to act together. The government needed to protect and assist the industry to refocus, indeed shrink but not as much as after the strike. The unions needed to work with the NCB and the government. But what did you get? Thatcher who wanted to reduce the strength of unions. Scargill who wanted to bloody the nose of Thatcher's government. Indeed I believe he was warned by the rail union and other unions but ignored their advice. How did they work out for him?

As I said we are not of the same views. Arguments are not debate and I fear we'd end up arguing. I'd rather be friendly with a fellow cyclists than discuss politics further. Can we agree to disagree?

(however I think after my diatribe above I feel you should have the last word on this to counter the above).

[reohn2]

TM
Sorry,I meant work in a mine.
Winning isn't what I'm on about,worth is what matters!!!

Scargill and Thatcher were both crazy and between them they left a wasteland.

[Cyril Haearn]

Does anyone ever have the *last* word?

I think it is great to read different experiences and opinions here, its is the most social contact I have right now

I did go down a mine in Blaenau Ffestiniog as a birthday surprise many years ago

Now it seems most mining is done in Australia and the stuff is exported to China, some problems there too I think

[old_windbag]

All this mining history made me wonder what ever happened to Roy Lynk. He was the chap who headed up the UDM breakaway union during the strike. It appears he's still alive and around 85yrs old, crikey time flies. The chap who followed on from him was done for mis-appropriating funds to update his house and given four years prison .

I was surprised at how old this chap now is but this was all nearly 33yrs ago I guess. It's a bit like seeing our moon landing heroes now dying off as they're all close to 90. Space travel and being an infirm old man don't rest easy together, it's sad to see that happen time is not good to us.

[Psamathe]

....
The NHS would have been set up whoever was in power post war......

Strange the the opposite is now not true i.e. that it required the Conservatives to run-down and privatise the NHS.

Ian

[Psamathe]

May earning her salary, that's a joke I assume.

I think she's way out of her depth but I don't begrudge her the money. I wouldn't touch her job with a barge pole for twice the cash.
....

I agree she is way way out of her depth but as to salary, I think the Conservatives own mantra should apply and "market forces" become applicable - and there seem quite a few who'd leap at any opportunity to take her job (Boris, Moggy, Ruddy, Davis, etc.). And when there are plenty of applicants the salary level is "adjusted" accordingly.

Ian

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

Is Psamathe the only anti-beeb remainer?

Otherwise it looks like there's a strong correlation between beeb haters and breleavers.
(Not that it surprises me).

Nor me.

Add me
But there is also a correlation with Unions Labour Stayers and BBC lovers.............................

The later is confusing as its steered and licence set by hated gov