BBC or CTC

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Stradageek
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

BBC or CTC

Postby Stradageek » 11 Jan 2018, 12:51pm

About 10yrs ago I resolved never to watch another TV news bulletin and have never looked back. I am no longer assaulted by alarmist or trival or over-hyped 'stories' designed purely to increase viewer numbers or at worst to support an 'establishment' agenda.

How do I keep in touch with the world? I found that a quick scan of the BBC News web page would be enough to collect all the salient data whilst allowing me to avoid any headline that looked alarmist or trival or over-hyped.

However, I now find that just about all the website 'news' items have become alarmist or trival or over-hyped, so what do I do next?

A rhetorical question because today and for many prior weeks I have found it far preferable to log on and listen to you guys chatting about anything, everything or nothing in particular. Move over BBC, well done CTC

Keep it up

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Si
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Re: BBC or CTC

Postby Si » 11 Jan 2018, 12:54pm

Given that every other tv news report seems to have half of its time dedicated to vox pop interviews with random people in the street, i dont think you are missing anything by reading randon people on a forum!

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: BBC or CTC

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 11 Jan 2018, 12:56pm

Hi,
There is the problem that editing what you consume will leave you isolated.
Some of the posts here are some what one sided frequented by opinionated folk, me even...................

I would rather see all than limit what I see, but we are all entitled to do it your own way :)
Priority Is Still 500K In 24......Just Dreaming..............Stay Focused Guys And Keep Sharp.....
You'll Find Me At The Top Of a Hill...............Somewhere

brynpoeth
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Re: BBC or CTC

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Jan 2018, 12:57pm

Guys: and gals!

You are right, most of the things going on in the world outside hardly concern one, the local news site is interesting mind

+1 for CUK-Fora

The muzak played while the tivi presenter is talking is particularly awful
But I hardly watch it either
Cycling - of course, but it is far better on a Gillott..alternative facts welcome

Ben@Forest
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: BBC or CTC

Postby Ben@Forest » 11 Jan 2018, 1:37pm

Stradageek wrote:About 10yrs ago I resolved never to watch another TV news bulletin and have never looked back...


It seems therefore that (on Tea Shop at least) you are taking a lot of news or views from people who don't own TVs (looking at the Licencing thread!). Maybe you are also TV-free, but I'm not sure you're getting a better picture on here, the mainstream TV channels are better regulated for impartiality than the newspapers and commentators on here.

There some good comments and conversations but some start with or attract statements that are blatantly untrue - I can tell you any thread about forestry/tree management or the legal issues around either comes up with some real corkers!

iandriver
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Location: Cambridge.

Re: BBC or CTC

Postby iandriver » 11 Jan 2018, 1:52pm

Always interesting to read some news sites from around the word. Always amazes me how you get such a UK centred view, with major events going on with no real UK coverage.
Supporter of the A10 corridor cycling campaign serving Royston to Cambridge http://a10corridorcycle.com. Never knew gardening secateurs were an essential part of the on bike tool kit until I took up campaigning.....

brynpoeth
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Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: BBC or CTC

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Jan 2018, 1:57pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
Stradageek wrote:About 10yrs ago I resolved never to watch another TV news bulletin and have never looked back...


It seems therefore that (on Tea Shop at least) you are taking a lot of news or views from people who don't own TVs (looking at the Licencing thread!). Maybe you are also TV-free, but I'm not sure you're getting a better picture on here, the mainstream TV channels are better regulated for impartiality than the newspapers and commentators on here.

There some good comments and conversations but some start with or attract statements that are blatantly untrue - I can tell you any thread about forestry/tree management or the legal issues around either comes up with some real corkers!


Please quote a few alternative (un-) truths, Danke

The Stadtwald in Luebeck has been managed sustainably for 20+ years, this makes less work, some areas are left to nature. Only indigenous trees are planted. The yield is good in relation to inputs, or so we are told, do you agree?
Cycling - of course, but it is far better on a Gillott..alternative facts welcome

Ben@Forest
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: BBC or CTC

Postby Ben@Forest » 11 Jan 2018, 2:24pm

brynpoeth wrote:Please quote a few alternative (un-) truths, Danke

The Stadtwald in Luebeck has been managed sustainably for 20+ years, this makes less work, some areas are left to nature. Only indigenous trees are planted. The yield is good in relation to inputs, or so we are told, do you agree?


The two big untruths which are persistently repeated as fact (not just here I get asked these or told these a lot) are:

1. Ivy kills trees - no it doesn't. A very heavy infestation on a young tree may affect its form - but essentially no. If growing productive forests then timber merchants don't want ivy on the tree because it makes inspection and processing more difficult.

2. Sycamore trees are invasive and will create a monoculture of sycamore unless we root out every one. Not true, it is a vigorous tree but has its ecological niche like every other organism. It will not and cannot colonise everything. (There's someone on here who will argue this forever if he reads this!)

The indigenous trees thing is a tricky issue. We have seed zones in the UK and were, until recently, encouraged to buy/plant trees appropriate to the seed zone (so to plant oaks in East Anglia buy plants grown from acorns sourced in East Anglia and so on).

However this has two issues - firstly we were importing acorns/oak seedlings from Holland as long ago as the 1600s - so how indigenous is indigenous? Secondly,planting local takes no account of climate change - it may be better to plant a seed/seedling sourced from elsewhere if you want it to be doing well in a warmer/wetter climate in 80, or 120 or 200 years time. Currently the advice is that certain species will be better sourced around 2 degrees latitude south of where you are planting - this means around 120 -130 miles south of where you are. So if you are planting an oak in Leicester the seed should come from Bournemouth and so on.

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Mick F
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Re: BBC or CTC

Postby Mick F » 11 Jan 2018, 3:20pm

Ben@Forest wrote:1. Ivy kills trees - no it doesn't. A very heavy infestation on a young tree may affect its form - but essentially no. If growing productive forests then timber merchants don't want ivy on the tree because it makes inspection and processing more difficul
Yes it does.

It grows and grows and grows, then pulls the tree over and the tree dies. The ivy likes that of course, so it can spread to the next tree ............

Come round here and look.
Mick F. Cornwall

Flinders
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 6:47pm

Re: BBC or CTC

Postby Flinders » 11 Jan 2018, 3:41pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Please quote a few alternative (un-) truths, Danke

The Stadtwald in Luebeck has been managed sustainably for 20+ years, this makes less work, some areas are left to nature. Only indigenous trees are planted. The yield is good in relation to inputs, or so we are told, do you agree?


The two big untruths which are persistently repeated as fact (not just here I get asked these or told these a lot) are:

1. Ivy kills trees - no it doesn't. A very heavy infestation on a young tree may affect its form - but essentially no. If growing productive forests then timber merchants don't want ivy on the tree because it makes inspection and processing more difficult.

2. Sycamore trees are invasive and will create a monoculture of sycamore unless we root out every one. Not true, it is a vigorous tree but has its ecological niche like every other organism. It will not and cannot colonise everything. (There's someone on here who will argue this forever if he reads this!)

The indigenous trees thing is a tricky issue. We have seed zones in the UK and were, until recently, encouraged to buy/plant trees appropriate to the seed zone (so to plant oaks in East Anglia buy plants grown from acorns sourced in East Anglia and so on).

However this has two issues - firstly we were importing acorns/oak seedlings from Holland as long ago as the 1600s - so how indigenous is indigenous? Secondly,planting local takes no account of climate change - it may be better to plant a seed/seedling sourced from elsewhere if you want it to be doing well in a warmer/wetter climate in 80, or 120 or 200 years time. Currently the advice is that certain species will be better sourced around 2 degrees latitude south of where you are planting - this means around 120 -130 miles south of where you are. So if you are planting an oak in Leicester the seed should come from Bournemouth and so on.


Ivy can kill trees in this way:
In the winter, deciduous trees lose their leaves. If they are infested with ivy, those leaves are not lost. That can add substantially to the wind loading of the tree in weather that is most likely in the winter- a combination of high winds and saturated ground. Hence it can bring down a tree that would otherwise have survived.

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Mick F
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Re: BBC or CTC

Postby Mick F » 11 Jan 2018, 4:04pm

Yep.
Loads of dead and dying trees all due to ivy infestation.

We have a couple of acres of woodland here in the Tamar Valley. We're on the western (Cornish) slopes. These slopes used to be fields of daffodils and anemones, plus soft fruits. They were exported down to the river and thence to Plymouth and by sea to London. Latterly, after the railways came, they went by rail.

In the 1950's the fields fell into disuse and the hedgerows spread into the unused fields. Eventually, the fields became woodland. We don't have a tree in these fields older than 60odd years though some round the edges are quite old.

The woodlands are all overgrown, unmaintained, forgotten and generally useless. We've owned this property for 20years and in all that time, I've cleared our two acres of dead trees, diseased trees and most of the ivy. The ivy is starting to grow up our trees again, so when I can round to it, I'll be cutting it off again. Must've done this to ALL our trees three or four times in the 20years.

When I'm up in our wood, I can see into all the other woodland, and it's a horrible mess of dead and dying trees, and jungles of ivy dragging it all down. Some ivy "trunk" is four or five inches thick, so it really means business.

Ivy kills trees.
Full stop.
Mick F. Cornwall

brynpoeth
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Re: BBC or CTC

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Jan 2018, 4:15pm

Does it strangle them?
Or protect them?

I do like controversy, opinion-forming, different opinions (alternative facts)
Cycling - of course, but it is far better on a Gillott..alternative facts welcome

Ben@Forest
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: BBC or CTC

Postby Ben@Forest » 11 Jan 2018, 4:43pm

Though I recognise Mick's and Flinders' description of some woods or trees I would argue that ivy does not kill trees - it is a the consequence of other ecological interactions. Nearly all native British trees are light-demanders, i.e. they need light to thrive. In a natural environment, where there is an existing canopy cover some (probably most) regenerating trees will be suppressed. Because they are suppressed they cannot grow upwards and the ivy takes hold. Surprisingly the trees can stay live for a long time like this. However ivy is an epiphyte (which means it's non-parasitic) and it is not the agent that kills the tree. In a woodland with no ivy a suppressed tree which cannot exploit a gap (like a neighbouring tree coming down) will also die.

Mick is also very keen on woodland gardening, but woodlands are supposed to have a lot a dead and decaying wood. Overall and here we recommend around 10-15% of a woodland is dead or decaying wood https://www.forestry.gov.uk/england-managingdeadwood but in truly natural environments it's closer to 40%.

Some years ago I heard a talk by a mountaineer who, as part of a expedition, climbed a remote mountain in Patagonia. It was so remote they accessed the location by yacht and then had several days fighting their way through a completely unmanaged forest (probably southern beech forest tho he didn't say that) - he said that getting through the deadwood, fallen trunks, branches etc was as hard as climbing the mountain itself. Every well-managed woodland should have a lot of dead wood.

reohn2
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Re: BBC or CTC

Postby reohn2 » 11 Jan 2018, 5:00pm

Stradageek wrote:About 10yrs ago I resolved never to watch another TV news bulletin and have never looked back. I am no longer assaulted by alarmist or trival or over-hyped 'stories' designed purely to increase viewer numbers or at worst to support an 'establishment' agenda.

How do I keep in touch with the world? I found that a quick scan of the BBC News web page would be enough to collect all the salient data whilst allowing me to avoid any headline that looked alarmist or trival or over-hyped.

However, I now find that just about all the website 'news' items have become alarmist or trival or over-hyped, so what do I do next?

A rhetorical question because today and for many prior weeks I have found it far preferable to log on and listen to you guys chatting about anything, everything or nothing in particular. Move over BBC, well done CTC

Keep it up

I tend to use the 'filter of mind' which quickly dismisses the alarmist and over-hyped parts of news stories.
I came to the conclusion a long time ago that the 'news' from whatever source,needed me to be vigilant to the sometimes very subtle sometimes very overt 'buttering up' of stories in order to attract an audience/readship.
That said occassionally the filter fails me :?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: BBC or CTC

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 11 Jan 2018, 5:07pm

Hi,
Mick F wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:1. Ivy kills trees - no it doesn't. A very heavy infestation on a young tree may affect its form - but essentially no. If growing productive forests then timber merchants don't want ivy on the tree because it makes inspection and processing more difficul
Yes it does.

It grows and grows and grows, then pulls the tree over and the tree dies. The ivy likes that of course, so it can spread to the next tree ............

Come round here and look.

Maybe the ivy senses the tree is on the way out?
Priority Is Still 500K In 24......Just Dreaming..............Stay Focused Guys And Keep Sharp.....
You'll Find Me At The Top Of a Hill...............Somewhere