is there anything wrong with the system?

[Mick F]

NI Tax Pensions, all come under HMRC now.

I never said anything about who collects it.
NI contributions and taxation are separate things. One doesn't depend on the other.

You pay NI automatically out of your pay packet if your weekly income is above a certain figure. Your employer pays a sum, and you pay a sum.
If you are self employed, or unemployed, or not in employment, you don't pay NI contributions unless you want to.

The problem arrises if you have already paid enough for a max pension and you remain in full time employment. If you're not careful, you'll still be paying NI contributions and get no benefit of it. I understand that when you've paid enough, you can opt out of the automatic payment, but I'm not sure about that.

This poor lady who is the subject of the OP probably never had a NI number. She may have paid income tax, but probably not IMO.

Do we have any facts on this?

[mjr]

NI is now collected with taxes, even for self-assessment payers, which might muddy the waters.

No it isn't.
Two separate things.
It depends on lots of things.

https://www.gov.uk/self-employed-nation ... ance-rates confirms that I paid my NI with my taxes through self-assessment instead of the quarterly bills I used to get but maybe someone who no longer pays knows better than me!

[mercalia]

NI is now collected with taxes, even for self-assessment payers, which might muddy the waters.

No it isn't.
Two separate things.
It depends on lots of things.

https://www.gov.uk/self-employed-nation ... ance-rates confirms that I paid my NI with my taxes through self-assessment instead of the quarterly bills I used to get but maybe someone who no longer pays knows better than me!

but as you imply thats a new thing. I think maybe only for the last 2 or 3 years

[Stevek76]

If you have an NI number, you are registered as legally Brit.

Nope, you only need the right to work or study in the UK to get an NI number.

[pete75]

A story to gladden the heart of any anti immigration supporter of brexit.....

[Vorpal]

Firstly, if she worked and paid taxes all of her life in the UK, she almost certainly had an NI number.

Secondly, anyone legally living or working in the UK can have an NI number, indepedent of their immigration status.

Even students from the European Economic Association, studying in the UK can obtain an NI number.

[PH]

How did it get to 50years before anyone noticed?
In all of those 50years, did she have a national insurance number?

I think you've muddied the water by going off on a tangent - having a NI insurance number doesn't imply citizenship, if (As in this case) someone is in the UK when they become 16 they are automatically given one.
It is also possible, though less likely, that she had a certificate exempting her from requiring one, the UK has bilateral agreements with several countries where this is the case (Jamaica among them)

[PH]

A story to gladden the heart of any anti immigration supporter of brexit.....

Nope - a cheap point badly made.
If we're going to make any sense of the mess we're in then then a bit of respect for those with opposing opinions is going to be needed. I know a few brexit supporters, all of who have different opinions to mine on immigration, none of them would in any way be gladdened by this story.

[mercalia]

my original point I was trying to make was that it is sad reflection of the civil service is it? that cases like this are processed withthe full force of the rules rather than it get pushed up stairs where some one can exerise some common sense? We dont trust politicians seem like also now the authorities in general where a description of a "mindless machine" seems appropriate?

[pete75]

A story to gladden the heart of any anti immigration supporter of brexit.....

Nope - a cheap point badly made.
If we're going to make any sense of the mess we're in then then a bit of respect for those with opposing opinions is going to be needed. I know a few brexit supporters, all of who have different opinions to mine on immigration, none of them would in any way be gladdened by this story.

Yes and I know a few who think this is as it should be. As one said rules are rules and they should be used to get rid of illegals like this.
Brexit will most likely make things worse for this country, for my children and my children's children. Why should I respect people who's opinions and views caused that to happen?

[Mick F]

If you have an NI number, you are registered as legally Brit.

Nope, you only need the right to work or study in the UK to get an NI number.

In order to get a NI number, you must be resident. Just a work visa won't be enough. ............... or that's the way I understand it.
If you have a NI number to come and study and work temporarily, your NI number is cancelled when you go home. ............... or that's the way I understand it.

Did this lady pay income tax and NI?

[Ben@Forest]

If you have an NI number, you are registered as legally Brit.

Nope, you only need the right to work or study in the UK to get an NI number.

In order to get a NI number, you must be resident. Just a work visa won't be enough. ............... or that's the way I understand it.
If you have a NI number to come and study and work temporarily, your NI number is cancelled when you go home. ............... or that's the way I understand it.

Did this lady pay income tax and NI?

I guess she did - again referring back to the article she arrived here at the age of 10. She presumably went to school here and must have had some residency status. What she never did was formalise this into British citizenship. This happens to Brits abroad as well - I'm sure there was a case of one of those British orphans who were shipped to Australia in the 50s or 60s who found he was not Australian.

[Stevek76]

Nope, you only need the right to work or study in the UK to get an NI number.

In order to get a NI number, you must be resident. Just a work visa won't be enough. ............... or that's the way I understand it.
If you have a NI number to come and study and work temporarily, your NI number is cancelled when you go home. ............... or that's the way I understand it.

Did this lady pay income tax and NI?[/quote]

Well the government site seems to imply its mostly just about right to work or study.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-national-insurance-number

Ni numbers are the way HMRC tracks tax liabilities, anyone getting paid therefore is expected to have one.

As for this lady, I don't know how it used to work but in recent times under PAYE workers with no NI number get put on an emergency tax code that quite often means they pay more tax as assumptions get made about how much allowance they have.

She probably did have one, just get residency status got lost in the system up till the recent May driven crackdown as a result of recession and austerity stoking fears about immigration levels. Historically the UK had always been pretty relaxed/lazy about the whole matter.