Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

[Pastychomper]

I've never really liked the idea of carrying ten times my weight around just to get somewhere, being insulated form my surroundings, or the feeling of being partly "tied" to a parking space when I arrive - I usually prefer trains for long journeys. Having said that I find cars have some clear advantages - like legroom, more luggage space, more comfortable seats and lower journey cost. (The last, of course, is down to government subsidy - major roads are paid for by all of us while restoring the rail network is apparently supposed to be funded only by those who use it. But I digress.)

I usually enjoy long-distance driving, partly for the places I'm going (and, let's be honest, sometimes because of where I'm leaving), and especially when it's in the Highlands. In the last few years I've been driving a large, heavy 4wd (thought it's actually a 2wd now). It's great fun to drive, very comfortable, and handles well. Unfortunately it gets about half the mpg of some of the cars I've driven, which in my opinion makes it a poor car, since the primary purpose of a car is surely to transport people and fuel is the biggest cost. However it's a pretty good tractor, which was why I got it, and for some reason I really enjoy towing a trailer full of stuff.

[francovendee]

I love driving in the right vehicle.
The SEAT Eurobox, quiet, calm, comfy, effortless auto but ultimately boring.
The Staaag, top down, wind in remaining hair, the V8 rumble, floating over the potholes with soft suspension and forgiving tyres, closer to the road, people stare and grin and little boys point excitedly, Dad, Dad look at that yellow car Dad...
Rusty the VW Camper, slow but comfy, friendly waves from other Dubers, no power steering, the soft sound of air cooled magic from the rear and a bit of rattling from the stove. Put the kettle on soon...

Al

Running two 'classics' then you forgot the view from the recovery vehicles cab

[[XAP]Bob]

I enjoy doing it well, I don't like doing it when traffic is heavy...

[Vorpal]

None of those really fit me. There are some things that I like about driving, and some things that I dislike about driving, but the words 'love' and 'hate' are a bit extreme compared to my attitudes.

I love the way machines work. I take an engineer's interest in design and function, and I appreciate a car that is well-designed. I can enjoy driving one. However, I don't like driving in traffic. I don't like the car culture and what it has done to the environment. I don't like the risk to myself and others that our use of cars creates.

[mjr]

[...]I usually prefer trains for long journeys. Having said that I find cars have some clear advantages - like legroom, more luggage space, [...]

I'll grant you comfortable seats (as you can have what you prefer, set how you prefer), disagree about legroom (especially if I'm not in the front seat of the car and the train is reasonably modern) and not repeat the journey cost debate here, but is having more luggage space than what you can practically take on a train* a clear advantage? Most of the time that's just pointless space to be transporting around.

* - I estimate a practical limit as probably two airline-size rolling suitcases per person (one per hand), plus backpack and haversack or tote over the shoulder - that might be over the conditions of carriage limit but I've never seen it enforced unless the passenger is slow or obstructive.

Also, if all passenger seats in a car are occupied, few have enough luggage space to carry that much per person. Plus I like being able to stand up whenever I want/need - can't do that in a car.

[Vorpal]

IMO, taking luggage on a train is typically not so much a problem for space, as what each person can get on and off the train. With a car, if going on holiday with a family, for example, you can make several trips with luggage, and load bikes on the back or on top after the luggage is loaded. Then, you can take all the clothes needed for variable weather, toys for the kids, pets, if appropriate, etc. On the train, I've managed two kids, a couple of suitcases, and a baby buggy, but it was hard work, and I occasionally got help from other passengers. It's a little easier with two adults, even if it means additional luggage, but a car is still much easier. And if you have far to go after the train, buses to take, etc., it quickly gets to the point where without a car, you just don't go. I imagine different families draw that line in different places, and it's easier in some countries than others.

[[XAP]Bob]

Train to my parents:

£157.50 single (if booked a couple of months in advance)
That's for one adult.
It takes 16 hours (overnight) or 8 hours (daytime, but arrives well after the previous night's option) with one or two changes (and therefore potential failure points)
It arrives only 10 miles from my destination.


If I take the half hour to get the train to my local airport (I've been on a plane in an hour from home before) then I fly for an hour and arrive 40 miles from my destination (1 hour by car, 2 by train).
That's £10 to get to the airport, £45 to fly, £10 to get the rest of the way by train (ok, I'm still ten miles out).


OR I could drive, carrying 2 adults, and both kids, as well as luggage for a week or three.
Costs about £40 in fuel (if you use HMRC rates it it's £135) and takes 6 hours (9 is a really bad day).
I arrive *at* my destination, having not had to get to a train station first...


The car is the obvious choice - I might just about be able to justify a flight if I need to leave the car elsewhere for some reason.

I still want to cycle down at some point though - I have friends about halfway...

[mjr]

Costs about £40 in fuel (if you use HMRC rates it it's £135) and takes 6 hours (9 is a really bad day). [...] The car is the obvious choice

Yeah, because you're ignoring the wear on the car and its fixed costs which are theoretically in the HMRC rates as well as the 6-9 hours of work you're doing when you can't do anything else. Driving is only the obvious choice if your time is worthless, but that's the sort of fake accounting that is widespread in our society and has led to our inefficient screwed-up transport system.

Train/coach +bike should clearly wipe the floor with cars, but it doesn't because of various policy decisions. It's still closer than most people would admit, though.

Good luck on cycling it some time, though.

[thirdcrank]

Used to....once I was MOVING I always seemed to want to go onwards. Cars and m'cycles. Unknown roads heading down to the Med. Italy. Spain. Or the Kwacker Plymouth to Liverpool for the ferry to IoM. Or to a frozen tent at a winter Club Rally at Princetown.

No longer. Mainly a boring necessity now (herself has mobility difficulties). Just me, I'd quit now. Be decided for me come August. I will NOT renew my licence at 70 - there are already far too many old drivers out there.

Unless you already recognise that you are already no longer a safe driver, that's a brave decision, especially if somebody else depends on your services as a driver. It's almost certainly burning your boats in that for all sorts of reasons, it's so much easier to continue than to stop at that age then resume if you change your mind.

I don't want to turn the thread into another debate about older drivers but there's nothing scientific about the selection of the age seventy as the point when drivers are required to re-apply and positively confirm they are ok. My seventieth birthday present to myself was the only expensive car I have ever owned - an Audi Quattro. My wife refers to it as the white elephant, but she doesn't grumble about going out in it.

A bus pass is all very well but no use when there's no bus service.

[mercalia]

Train to my parents:

£157.50 single (if booked a couple of months in advance)
That's for one adult.
It takes 16 hours (overnight) or 8 hours (daytime, but arrives well after the previous night's option) with one or two changes (and therefore potential failure points)
It arrives only 10 miles from my destination.


If I take the half hour to get the train to my local airport (I've been on a plane in an hour from home before) then I fly for an hour and arrive 40 miles from my destination (1 hour by car, 2 by train).
That's £10 to get to the airport, £45 to fly, £10 to get the rest of the way by train (ok, I'm still ten miles out).


OR I could drive, carrying 2 adults, and both kids, as well as luggage for a week or three.
Costs about £40 in fuel (if you use HMRC rates it it's £135) and takes 6 hours (9 is a really bad day).
I arrive *at* my destination, having not had to get to a train station first...


The car is the obvious choice - I might just about be able to justify a flight if I need to leave the car elsewhere for some reason.

I still want to cycle down at some point though - I have friends about halfway...

where on earth are your going from and to ? must be Cornwall to Hebrides or there about?

[Cyril Haearn]

Used to....once I was MOVING I always seemed to want to go onwards. Cars and m'cycles. Unknown roads heading down to the Med. Italy. Spain. Or the Kwacker Plymouth to Liverpool for the ferry to IoM. Or to a frozen tent at a winter Club Rally at Princetown.

No longer. Mainly a boring necessity now (herself has mobility difficulties). Just me, I'd quit now. Be decided for me come August. I will NOT renew my licence at 70 - there are already far too many old drivers out there.

Unless you already recognise that you are already no longer a safe driver, that's a brave decision, especially if somebody else depends on your services as a driver. It's almost certainly burning your boats in that for all sorts of reasons, it's so much easier to continue than to stop at that age then resume if you change your mind.

I don't want to turn the thread into another debate about older drivers but there's nothing scientific about the selection of the age seventy as the point when drivers are required to re-apply and positively confirm they are ok. My seventieth birthday present to myself was the only expensive car I have ever owned - an Audi Quattro. My wife refers to it as the white elephant, but she doesn't grumble about going out in it.

A bus pass is all very well but no use when there's no bus service.

Why, is it always and audi "quittro"?

I think one could keep the licence in case, but give up driving, does one then have to get checked at intervals? The alternative might be to take the test again aged 70-80-90, it is quite different now from when I learned 30 years ago. One hopes (!) that most of us cyclists would be in danger of failing for not making progresss, AKA going too slowly

I have been wondering where I might live in retirement, a fairly small town with cycleways for the daily 100km, a cinema, a bit of cuture, fairly rural, good train service and trams, where one really never needs to drive ..

[Cyril Haearn]

Do you love driving?

Yes, it has to be done.

That option doesn't make sense.

Sorry, I cannot change the choices because then all the votes already cast would be zeroed!
Please tick the nearest / least worst answer
Diolch

[thirdcrank]

... I think one could keep the licence in case, but give up driving, does one then have to get checked at intervals? The alternative might be to take the test again aged 70-80-90, ...

The only check is the renewal application every three years when the applicant has to declare that their eyesight meets the standard and they have no relevant medical condition. The application for renewal, although straightforward is in the middle of a minefield of spoof websites offering to provide the free DVLA service on payment of a fee. The ability to navigate that without being caught out might say something about the alertness of the applicant. I've a suspicion - and nothing more - that if a licence lapses then a new application is more complicated. I gave up looking for more detailed info when I got bogged down in all the websites offering a renewal for a fee.

I would say that my first re-application after the first three years ie approaching age 73 was simplicity itself: sign and return the application and no new photo needed. The hardest part for me both times has been keeping my signature within the space provided: a bit like the signature strip on the back of a credit card.

PS Stopping driving also usually involves stopping the insurance and again I suspect that a new application for insurance at 70+ after a break in driving would be pricey, especially with no NCB.

[[XAP]Bob]

Costs about £40 in fuel (if you use HMRC rates it it's £135) and takes 6 hours (9 is a really bad day). [...] The car is the obvious choice

Yeah, because you're ignoring the wear on the car and its fixed costs which are theoretically in the HMRC rates as well as the 6-9 hours of work you're doing when you can't do anything else. Driving is only the obvious choice if your time is worthless, but that's the sort of fake accounting that is widespread in our society and has led to our inefficient screwed-up transport system.

Train/coach +bike should clearly wipe the floor with cars, but it doesn't because of various policy decisions. It's still closer than most people would admit, though.

Good luck on cycling it some time, though.

I was explicitly ignoring wear on the car - and then allowing for it by using the HMRC figure. But note that the other figures are for a single person, not the 7 I can take in the car.

My time has value, but in either case I'm probably chatting with children/listening to audiobooks.
What's really horrifying is that flying is cheaper (and much faster) than the train...

where on earth are your going from and to ? must be Cornwall to Hebrides or there about?

Midlands to Cornwall.

[Psamathe]

....
I was explicitly ignoring wear on the car - and then allowing for it by using the HMRC figure...

Also, I always thought (maybe incorrectly) that the HMRC figure included the fixed costs (e.g. VED, Insurance, etc.) that are largely independent of mileage and thus you'd be paying with the car parked at home whilst you took the train/plane.

Ian