Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

Do you love driving?

I do not drive any more
4
5%
I have never driven
5
6%
Yes, I love it as much as cycling
17
22%
Yes, it has to be done
7
9%
Sometimes
28
35%
In theory yes, in practice no
8
10%
In theory no, in practice yes
1
1%
I hate driving but have to do it
9
11%
 
Total votes: 79

Chris56
Posts: 52
Joined: 3 May 2020, 9:30pm

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Chris56 » 30 Dec 2020, 9:32am

I've always been a fan of pre-dpf diesels.My last one was a Honda Accord that was remapped to 190BHP and it was fantastic. Avoid DPFs like the plague as I live in the city and do a lot of short journeys. Decided to treat myself last year to something brand new and was really impressed with some of the smaller turbo petrol engines. Went for a Seat Leon estate with the 1.5 tsi engine (150BHP) and absolutely love it. Plenty of punch and can easily return mid-50s mpg on a run. Urban MPG is low-30s but could get it higher if I drove more sedately!

Ride-sleep-repeat
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Nov 2020, 11:58am

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Ride-sleep-repeat » 30 Dec 2020, 9:52am

Pebble wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
pwa wrote:Mine is a Golf and the DPF issue has cost me at least a grand so far, and I have had the long wait for the RAC a couple of times with it. Our other car is a Toyota hybrid, which works out at least as cheap on fuel, possibly cheaper, but without the DPF worries. We are leaving diesel behind.

Just have the DPF mapped out.No need to remove it.It will still pass the MOT emissions.I put my last car through 6 MOTs.Two as standard,four remapped from 170 to 210bhp with the DPF bypassed and the emissions were almost exactly the same!
I think we're being conned with this whole DPF thing.VW getting caught for telling porkies about their emissions is just the tip of the iceberg.

Just mapping it out wouldn't work, how would it now when to regenerate ? if it didn't regenerate then it would get bunged up and destroy the engine.

And if you remove the DPF like people used to then that is an MOT failure now, I guess you could gut it but I have heard they don't stand a chance of passing the emissions test at the mot now..

I guess my post wasn't clear.You remove the internals of the DPF and bypass it by remapping.It no longer needs to regenerate as it isn't there and the ECU isn''t telling it to.It will pass the MOT because nothing changes regarding emissions.
I'm a mechanic by trade.Old school though and left the trade before all this ECU stuff became the norm.My younger brother is still in the trade so he sorts that side of things.You'd be surprised just how many Diesels are around without the DPF.VW/Audi and Vauxhall seem to be the most popular to modify.Sensors are another bug bear of mine.9 times out of 10 they're a 'ghost' and throw up the engine management/limp mode.You just need to know someone with a diagnostic scanner(a proper one not like those you can buy in Halfords)to reset them.Take it to the Main Stealers and they'll almost always change 'insert a random sensor here' and charge you X-amount on top of the £75+ diagnostic fee.It is literally a modern form of highway robbery!
I'm glad I know so many people in the trade 8) We run two cars and apart from fuel,consumables and MOT tests I doubt we've spent more than £500 on our cars in the last decade!

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8702
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Bonefishblues » 30 Dec 2020, 9:55am

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
Pebble wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:Just have the DPF mapped out.No need to remove it.It will still pass the MOT emissions.I put my last car through 6 MOTs.Two as standard,four remapped from 170 to 210bhp with the DPF bypassed and the emissions were almost exactly the same!
I think we're being conned with this whole DPF thing.VW getting caught for telling porkies about their emissions is just the tip of the iceberg.

Just mapping it out wouldn't work, how would it now when to regenerate ? if it didn't regenerate then it would get bunged up and destroy the engine.

And if you remove the DPF like people used to then that is an MOT failure now, I guess you could gut it but I have heard they don't stand a chance of passing the emissions test at the mot now..

I guess my post wasn't clear.You remove the internals of the DPF and bypass it by remapping.It no longer needs to regenerate as it isn't there and the ECU isn''t telling it to.It will pass the MOT because nothing changes regarding emissions.
I'm a mechanic by trade.Old school though and left the trade before all this ECU stuff became the norm.My younger brother is still in the trade so he sorts that side of things.You'd be surprised just how many Diesels are around without the DPF.VW/Audi and Vauxhall seem to be the most popular to modify.Sensors are another bug bear of mine.9 times out of 10 they're a 'ghost' and throw up the engine management/limp mode.You just need to know someone with a diagnostic scanner(a proper one not like those you can buy in Halfords)to reset them.Take it to the Main Stealers and they'll almost always change 'insert a random sensor here' and charge you X-amount on top of the £75+ diagnostic fee.It is literally a modern form of highway robbery!
I'm glad I know so many people in the trade 8) We run two cars and apart from fuel,consumables and MOT tests I doubt we've spent more than £500 on our cars in the last decade!

It may fail the MOT on the visible smoke criterion, if classed as Euro 4 or beyond, surely? How do you get round that?

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 14917
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Railway Cuttings East, Leafy Suburbia

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Cyril Haearn » 30 Dec 2020, 9:57am

What is remapping exactly? Does it conform to the word and the spirit of the law?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
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We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Pebble
Posts: 437
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Pebble » 30 Dec 2020, 10:13am

Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:
Pebble wrote:
Ride-sleep-repeat wrote:Just have the DPF mapped out.No need to remove it.It will still pass the MOT emissions.I put my last car through 6 MOTs.Two as standard,four remapped from 170 to 210bhp with the DPF bypassed and the emissions were almost exactly the same!
I think we're being conned with this whole DPF thing.VW getting caught for telling porkies about their emissions is just the tip of the iceberg.

Just mapping it out wouldn't work, how would it now when to regenerate ? if it didn't regenerate then it would get bunged up and destroy the engine.

And if you remove the DPF like people used to then that is an MOT failure now, I guess you could gut it but I have heard they don't stand a chance of passing the emissions test at the mot now..

I guess my post wasn't clear.You remove the internals of the DPF and bypass it by remapping.It no longer needs to regenerate as it isn't there and the ECU isn''t telling it to.It will pass the MOT because nothing changes regarding emissions.
I'm a mechanic by trade.Old school though and left the trade before all this ECU stuff became the norm.My younger brother is still in the trade so he sorts that side of things.You'd be surprised just how many Diesels are around without the DPF.VW/Audi and Vauxhall seem to be the most popular to modify.Sensors are another bug bear of mine.9 times out of 10 they're a 'ghost' and throw up the engine management/limp mode.You just need to know someone with a diagnostic scanner(a proper one not like those you can buy in Halfords)to reset them.Take it to the Main Stealers and they'll almost always change 'insert a random sensor here' and charge you X-amount on top of the £75+ diagnostic fee.It is literally a modern form of highway robbery!
I'm glad I know so many people in the trade 8) We run two cars and apart from fuel,consumables and MOT tests I doubt we've spent more than £500 on our cars in the last decade!

yes, i'm certainly aware there was a lot of gutted & deleted DPFs (and ad-blue systems) out there, (esp in HGVs, where a new DPF can cost 10k) but I thought recent changes to the MOT meant than any euro4+ diesel had to get more stringent emissions tests and they were all getting failed (may be that was just wagons?)

Although I totally understand why people do this, it should be outlawed and stopped, we desperately need less pollution. (and I do rather cynically write this as someone who has a pre DPF van that I am keeping as long as I can)

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Jdsk » 30 Dec 2020, 10:13am

Cyril Haearn wrote:What is remapping exactly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_tuning#Remapping
https://www.webuyanycar.com/guides/car-maintenance/what-is-remapping-a-simple-guide/

Cyril Haearn wrote:Does it conform to the word and the spirit of the law?

Sometimes it breaches the regulations, sometimes it doesn't.

Jonathan

Chris56
Posts: 52
Joined: 3 May 2020, 9:30pm

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Chris56 » 30 Dec 2020, 10:23am

Cyril Haearn wrote:Does it conform to the word and the spirit of the law?


If its a performance remap then generally yes but it will probably invalidate your insurance if you don't declare it. Normally this isn't a problem - I've had 2 cars done in the past, both gaining 50BHP and my insurance company was happy to cover it at no extra cost
Last edited by Chris56 on 30 Dec 2020, 10:23am, edited 1 time in total.

Pebble
Posts: 437
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Pebble » 30 Dec 2020, 10:23am

Cyril Haearn wrote:What is remapping exactly? Does it conform to the word and the spirit of the law?

Engines are now run by computer programs, 'remapping' is basically rewriting parts of this software. Remapping can make a vehicle more efficient but this is usually at the cost of more pollution, so it is not only is it not within the spirit of the law it is a pretty irresponsible thing to be doing.

The good news is that manufacturers are starting to lock people out of this software, so hopefully the practice will stop.

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Jdsk » 30 Dec 2020, 10:24am

Pebble wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:So new vehicles are not just heavier, uglier, but dirtier and less efficient than older ones?

I would certainly go with 'uglier' but they are only heavier as we keep making them bigger.

I would say considerably cleaner, but for a while they needed to use a little more fuel to create less of the pollution that harms our health (as opposed to the pollution that causes global warming)

As a cyclist I know when the diesl that has just past me is euro 3 or earlier, they stink We must not have know how bad it was 20 years ago .

Yes. We're going to have a lot of internal combustion engines around for a fair time. It's now possible to make them a lot cleaner both for local pollution and damage to the atmosphere we share.

Unfortunately there's bound to be gaming of the imposed regulations, as in the VAG scandal.

Mixing up "heavier", uglier", "dirtier" and "less efficient" doesn't help.

"Heavier" is a problem both for damage to roads... remember that power of the axle weight... and effect on the other object in collisions. Those externalities might not be reflected in current taxes etc.

"Dirtier" probably isn't the case overall, either for exhaust pollution or cost of manufacture. Anything that makes it easier for the consumer to understand would be a good idea.

"Uglier" is a matter of taste, and there may well be a relevant Latin tag. But throwing that in looks like neophobia, and gets in the way of addressing the factors that matter.

Jonathan

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 18646
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Vorpal » 30 Dec 2020, 2:36pm

Pebble wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:What is remapping exactly? Does it conform to the word and the spirit of the law?

Engines are now run by computer programs, 'remapping' is basically rewriting parts of this software. Remapping can make a vehicle more efficient but this is usually at the cost of more pollution, so it is not only is it not within the spirit of the law it is a pretty irresponsible thing to be doing.

The good news is that manufacturers are starting to lock people out of this software, so hopefully the practice will stop.

Manufacturers have been attempting for some time to prevent people doing this; for many reasons. Hackers seem to consistently be two steps ahead.

The biggest reason to prevent people getting access to the software is that they can force dealers & repair shops to buy their diagnostic tools and repair parts. Manufacturers also do not want anyone to know exactly how they control the engine software. It is considered proprietary, and protected as closely as they can. Even with companies that use automotive engines for other purposes, like generators or industrial applications, this can be a problem. Of course, some companies also have something to hide (as evidenced by the VW scandal).
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Jdsk
Posts: 5178
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Jdsk » 30 Dec 2020, 2:43pm

Vorpal wrote:The biggest reason to prevent people getting access to the software is that they can force dealers & repair shops to buy their diagnostic tools and repair parts.

I hadn't thought of it in that way.

There's a long-lasting struggle by the EU to remove anticompetitive practices in servicing and repairs but progress seems very slow, eg:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_10_619

Jonathan

Vorpal
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Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Vorpal » 30 Dec 2020, 2:46pm

Jdsk wrote:
Vorpal wrote:The biggest reason to prevent people getting access to the software is that they can force dealers & repair shops to buy their diagnostic tools and repair parts.

I hadn't thought of it in that way.

There's a long-lasting struggle by the EU to remove anticompetitive practices in servicing and repairs but progress seems very slow, eg:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_10_619

Jonathan

I used to work in the industry. The extent to which stuff was protected & the weird attempts at industrial espionage approached Hollywood-plot ridiculous sometimes.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

peetee
Posts: 2765
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby peetee » 30 Dec 2020, 4:13pm

Jdsk wrote:Yes. We're going to have a lot of internal combustion engines around for a fair time. It's now possible to make them a lot cleaner both for local pollution and damage to the atmosphere we share.

Jonathan


The best way to make them a lot cleaner is to remap the wiring in the heads of a large proportion of drivers; leave the car at home if walking or cycling is possible and sort your life and attitude out so you are not driving with your foot to the floor cos you’re late, going for that gap to get ahead of one particular road user or sitting for ages with your engine running.
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

Ride-sleep-repeat
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Nov 2020, 11:58am

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby Ride-sleep-repeat » 30 Dec 2020, 4:46pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:What is remapping exactly? Does it conform to the word and the spirit of the law?

It is perfectly legal.You're basically telling the computer to change specific dynamics within the cars running system.
Most cars are 'de-tuned' to fall into certain categories.For example my car is 170bhp detuned from 230bhp.My insurance is happy for me to remap to 230bhp as it is safe to do so without having to modify parts of the engine.Obviously I need to inform them(and I do/will).Tyres/brakes etc are all OK as they are rated higher.My tyres for instance are 'Y' rated(186mph) the car is rated at 138mph.
There are generally two types of remap.One is out-and-out power/torque for acceleration/top speed the other is for extra power/economy.I go for the later.It cures the flat spots and turbo lag so as well as acceleration a bit quicker it's more economical.My last car averaged around 5-8mpg more after a remap despite 'gaining 30bhp.A big saving when you do 12000+ miles a year!

There are of course grey areas when it comes to remapping.Removing a DPF for instance.Although not strictly legal(or illegal) it is extremely difficult to detect as the ECU still thinks it's there and the shell is still visibly there but as it's gone it doesn't throw up a fault so never has to regenerate(or self clean).You are fooling the ECU in reality.
Then there's the extreme remaps/mods where people take engines to 3/4/500+bhp.This would massive increase insurance premiums so I would hazard a guess that not everyone who does it declares it!
I know a guy with an Audi RS4 Avant.It's a V6 440bhp as standard.He's had it tinkered with and remapped to 550bhp.He's eventually going to 600+.His insurance is already around £3k a year so he's not declaring anything and freely admits it!
Remapping will always happen.The more sophisticated engines and software get the easier it is for a computer nerd to get around.There will always be a way to get around the software just as there was always a way to 'soup-up' engines in the good old days.

rmurphy195
Posts: 1977
Joined: 20 May 2011, 11:23am
Location: South Birmingham

Re: Do you like / love driving a motor vehicle? Vote now please!

Postby rmurphy195 » 31 Dec 2020, 8:22pm

peetee wrote:This cleans out the DPF and all the particulates that have been saved from the urban environment are dumped in the rural environment. .


Not quite - the long run heats up the DPF and burns off the carbon particulates (the stuff that makes the black smoke on vehicles that have had the DPF removed), leaving ash deposits in the DPF which gradually build up until the damn thing clogs up and has to be replaced. The bone of contention as far as I'm concenred is why aren't DPF's designed so you can remove a plate, empty out the ash, then bolt the plate back on. They've been doing this on steam engines since they were invented!
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""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !