Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

[pwa]

......... the Andrew/William situation?
As I said, it's debatable.

Are the Royal Family really so disfunctional that there is no clear successor?
Surely there must be a definitive answer?
Surely??

Not "pistols at dawn" starring Andrew and Wiillam! (With Catherine and Harry as the valets, Harry acting for Andrew of course! )

I'm sure it is Charles, then if not Charles it is William, then his kids in order of birth. Andrew doesn't get a look in.

[pete75]

The Royal Rolls Royce eh?


I said "son" to make the argument simpler, but I'm well aware of the new law regarding male/female succession.

Ok, let's say a hereditary Lord.
Eldest child inherits the title.
If eldest child dies before he/she inherits, it's the next eldest child.
If the dead eldest child had had a child before he/she died, who inherits then?

Edward VIII abdicated, and part of the abdication agreements were that he would forfeit any claim to the throne, and any child or grandchild etc etc would not be in line to a future throne. His line would be out of the succession.
If that part wasn't in the agreement, all sorts of inheritance issues would come up.

Wars have been fought regarding this.

......... the Andrew/William situation?
As I said, it's debatable.

No it's not - there is a clear line of succession as detail in this article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ssion.html

[Vorpal]

A few bigots dont prove a case. Its not a matter of being a person of good will just one of indifference, and I doubt there are many left who were brought up in the colonies now who remember the glory days, rather than the retreat & collapse - They would be in their 80/90's or older now, as the best of times would be the 20/30's before WW2? Rhodesia might be case I suppose was white ruled until 1980. 37 years ago, people would be in their late 50s onwards remembering the troubles there, the numbers would be very small ?

I wasn't trying to prove a case. It was an example, albeit an extreme one. I probably should not have used it, as it distracted from my main point.

There is a disconnect between imperial fantasies and the diverse culture that was a natural outcome of a globe-spanning empire. The British Empire was the leader in globalisation. The EU has effectively become the leader.

Brexit is a rejection of this with nothing to put in its place. It's great to say that we have our sovereignity back, but that's not something we ever lost.

IMO, we need to work more with our neighboring lands, and cooperate better between all nations of the world. The EU, while far from perfect, is a very good experiement in multinational cooperation. We need more of it, not less. And more multinational cooperatives like the EU, as well.

I sitll don't buy that imperial fantasies have given us Brexit. I think that a rejection of globalisation has given us Brexit. But globalisation is not something we are in a position to reject. We need instead to manipulate it, cooperate with other lands to resolve the conflicts it causes; help the victims of it.

And eventually develop another way to run things, because it is clear that the current system is only working well for some.

[Mick F]

No it's not - there is a clear line of succession as detail in this article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ssion.html

I agree, but it is open to debate.
It can all change as they pop their clogs and it can all change if the rules are re-written.
They've already been re-written and they could be put back as they used to be. All it takes is politics.

Wars have been fought over this subject.
History repeats itself.

[PDQ Mobile]

Wars have been fought over this subject.
History repeats itself.

There would seem a simple and obvious solution to avoid such a war again then!

[Mick F]

Wars have been fought over this subject.
History repeats itself.

There would seem a simple and obvious solution to avoid such a war again then!

Not "pistols at dawn" starring Andrew and Wiillam! (With Catherine and Harry as the valets, Harry acting for Andrew of course! )

Yes, let them fight it out.

Having met Andrew (and Fergie too) I suspect that Andrew wouldn't want the crown anyway.

[PDQ Mobile]

IMO, we need to work more with our neighboring lands, and cooperate better between all nations of the world. The EU, while far from perfect, is a very good experiement in multinational cooperation. We need more of it, not less. And more multinational cooperatives like the EU, as well.
.....
And eventually develop another way to run things, because it is clear that the current system is only working well for some.

+1 Yes I agree. Well put.

[Mick F]

............. And more multinational cooperatives like the EU, as well. ....

Nothing wrong with multinational co-operatives, but not a United States of multinational countries.

Go back to the way it was.
Common Market.

[kwackers]

Go back to the way it was.
Common Market.

Way it was? It was never just a "common market".
It was always about commercial, political, economic, environmental etc practices.

In '67 PM Harold Wilson wrote:
“But whatever the economic arguments, the House will realise that, as I have repeatedly made clear, the Government’s purpose derives, above all, from our recognition that Europe is now faced with the opportunity of a great move forward in political unity and that we can and indeed must — play our full part in it.”

In '72 PM Edward Heath wrote:
“The community which we are joining is far more than a common market. It is a community in the true sense of that term. It is concerned not only with the establishment of free trade, economic and monetary union and other major economic issues, important though these are — but also as the Paris Summit Meeting has demonstrated, with social issues which affect us all — environmental questions, working conditions in industry, consumer protection, aid to development areas and vocational training.”

[pwa]

Go back to the way it was.
Common Market.

Way it was? It was never just a "common market".
It was always about commercial, political, economic, environmental etc practices.

In '67 PM Harold Wilson wrote:
“But whatever the economic arguments, the House will realise that, as I have repeatedly made clear, the Government’s purpose derives, above all, from our recognition that Europe is now faced with the opportunity of a great move forward in political unity and that we can and indeed must — play our full part in it.”

In '72 PM Edward Heath wrote:
“The community which we are joining is far more than a common market. It is a community in the true sense of that term. It is concerned not only with the establishment of free trade, economic and monetary union and other major economic issues, important though these are — but also as the Paris Summit Meeting has demonstrated, with social issues which affect us all — environmental questions, working conditions in industry, consumer protection, aid to development areas and vocational training.”

Do you think people would have voted in favour of us joining, in the early 70s, if they had been told that free movement of labour was going to come?

[Vorpal]

Do you think people would have voted in favour of us joining, in the early 70s, if they had been told that free movement of labour was going to come?

Maybe if they'd all been told they could retire in sunny Spain?

[kwackers]

Do you think people would have voted in favour of us joining, in the early 70s, if they had been told that free movement of labour was going to come?

Why do you think they wouldn't?

Anyway that wasn't the point, my point was that the common market was never just a market. You can't return to it because you're already in it.

[Mick F]

Thanks Kwackers for putting me straight.

Therefore I go back to what I've said before. I was against the CM, the EEC and the EU.

Out Out Out.

[Cyril Haearn]

Do you think people would have voted in favour of us joining, in the early 70s, if they had been told that free movement of labour was going to come?

Maybe if they'd all been told they could retire in sunny Spain?

Or work in Germany or even Norge! How did you wangle that, Norway is not in the EU but..?

[Vorpal]

Do you think people would have voted in favour of us joining, in the early 70s, if they had been told that free movement of labour was going to come?

Maybe if they'd all been told they could retire in sunny Spain?

Or work in Germany or even Norge! How did you wangle that, Norway is not in the EU but..?

Norway is part of the EEA, which is like paying to be in the EU, and paying again not to implement all the laws in the EU, then implementing most of them, anyway