Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Post Reply

Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit?

Poll ended at 10 Feb 2018, 9:07pm

Yes
31
78%
No
9
23%
Dont Know
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 40

kwackers
Posts: 15643
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by kwackers »

pwa wrote:The Guardian has seemed to me for a long time now to be floundering and bewildered, unable to comprehend the support for Brexit. They don't get it. This suggested cause of Brexit is so wide of the mark that it is funny.

Does anyone "get" it?

Seems to me the reasons for folk wanting brexit are so diverse that there is no single thing to "get" and so the bewilderment (which I admit to feeling) is what on earth are they expecting?
We can't please them all and most likely won't please any.

I also seem to think that the "making Britain great again" tag line was much used and oft quoted particularly by the "I'm not racist but" racists I saw interviewed around the time.
I can't see how you can bang the imperialism drum and not have anyone march to it. If it really was nonsense it wouldn't have gotten repeated and indeed quite likely would have put people off brexit. It did and it didn't (at least not in great numbers).

I was brought up being continually told how great Britain was and how great our empire was. It's no surprise to me that my peers are one of the biggest groups of brexiters around.
pwa
Posts: 17404
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by pwa »

kwackers wrote:
pwa wrote:The Guardian has seemed to me for a long time now to be floundering and bewildered, unable to comprehend the support for Brexit. They don't get it. This suggested cause of Brexit is so wide of the mark that it is funny.

Does anyone "get" it?

Seems to me the reasons for folk wanting brexit are so diverse that there is no single thing to "get" and so the bewilderment (which I admit to feeling) is what on earth are they expecting?
We can't please them all and most likely won't please any.

I also seem to think that the "making Britain great again" tag line was much used and oft quoted particularly by the "I'm not racist but" racists I saw interviewed around the time.
I can't see how you can bang the imperialism drum and not have anyone march to it. If it really was nonsense it wouldn't have gotten repeated and indeed quite likely would have put people off brexit. It did and it didn't (at least not in great numbers).

I was brought up being continually told how great Britain was and how great our empire was. It's no surprise to me that my peers are one of the biggest groups of brexiters around.


I must be a bit younger. I grew up aware that there had been an Empire, but it was already in the past and not much more than a bit of history.
kwackers
Posts: 15643
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by kwackers »

pwa wrote:I must be a bit younger. I grew up aware that there had been an Empire, but it was already in the past and not much more than a bit of history.

Which suggests to me that your peer group weren't huge brexiters, which probably means you're not overly exposed to the older imperialist viewpoint.

I've no idea just how much imperialism actually accounts for brexit, but when you only need one percent to swing it then technically pretty much anything brexiters fantasise about will give you brexit.
Must be more than 1% wanted the 350m, more than 1% want to control immigration, more than 1% are simply outright racist, more than 1% simply have a deep hatred of the EU, more than 1% don't want human rights applying to anyone but themselves etc etc.

In short, it's a rubbish headline because tbh you could apply it to pretty much anything brexiters wanted which if removed may well have changed the outcome of the vote.
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by Mick F »

I voted Leave, and still stand by it.
I'm not imperialistic at all, and imperialism had nothing to do with my Out Vote.

I was happy with the Common Market, and I was happy-ish with the EEC, but the United States of Europe is a step too far.
Get out of the EU before it's too late.
Mick F. Cornwall
kwackers
Posts: 15643
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by kwackers »

Mick F wrote:I voted Leave, and still stand by it.

Pensioner in "I voted leave" shocker.
P.S. Now the economy is stuffed you working guys better get cracking, you've got pensions to pay.
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by Mick F »

If I'd have been asked 20years ago, I'd have voted Leave
If I'd have been asked 30years ago, I'd have voted Leave
If I'd have been asked 40years ago, I'd have voted Leave
etc.

I remember the negotiations prior to our entry into the Common Market. I was against it then, even at my tender age.
I voted NO in the 1970odd referendum.

My views have never changed.
We should never have joined in the first place.
Mick F. Cornwall
landsurfer
Posts: 5327
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by landsurfer »

Mick F wrote:
landsurfer wrote:All of my wifes family are "proper Cornish" in fact "Riddled with Cornish" .
They think any type of independent Cornwall is nonsense.
Not the same sentiment from the Cornish people I know.


Yes, but their not "West Cornwall Cornish" are they ........ "If you don't live west of Bodmin your not proper Cornish" ........ is how it was explained to me. .... :lol: ....
What chance Independence ....
I'm reminded of the Peoples Front Of Judea ..... "Splitters" .....
“Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles every knot.”
Be more Mike.
The road goes on forever.
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 20716
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by Vorpal »

mercalia wrote:
There are still people in the UK who feel that other countries have messed things up, and the British ought to go in and set things straight as they have done for so long.

Some of these cannot see that a diverse society is a natural outcome of the far-flung empire. You cannot have the empire and get rid of the immigrants. At least not without a return to the oppression of a century gone. Is that what they want?


You should change the range of your statements from some people to most people to see the mistake. Of course out of 60M there are some who would think the way you suggest: I think most people dont want to waste money on forereign adventures - the only one I can think of that was popular in recent memory was the Falklands War. It was once said that Britain was a nation of shopkeepers, that was the bottom line not lauding it over other places. Even in the C19 I think Gt Britain didnt like to interfer in other places esp under Gladstone, who was slow to send troops to relieve Khartoum and save Gordon. India was ruled by the East India Company ( Clive of India was an East India Company man?);

I used to sit at a lunch table in a British firm with a diverse work force, and our lunch table talk covered a wide range of subjects. I distinctly recall that over a discussion about more than one country in turmoil, that one colleague said, "We should go in and straighten out that mess, like when my grandfather served abroad." He said exactly that, and furthermore a couple of other people nodded their heads when he said so. On another occasion, when he said something similar, with a citizen of the nation in question sitting at the table (who appeared angry, but didn't say anything), I said, something like, "That's an attitude likely to cause resentment, isn't it?" and he dug himself a bigger hole by saying that they were a bunch of primitives who didn't have any hope of ruling themselves.

I said what I said deliberately, and I don't think it is a mistake. My former colleague may not be in the majority, but I highly doubt he is the only person who feels so. There are a many kind and open-minded people in the UK, but anyone who grew up there, or even some who grew up as British living abroad, have grown up in a culture imbued with the glory of the former empire. Perhaps not many articulate it, but it is there, nonetheless.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Cyril Haearn
Posts: 15215
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by Cyril Haearn »

The commonwealth still exists and connects the UK with a mixed group of countries all over the world

God shave the Prince of Wales, he will be head of the commonwealth one day

But who will then be the PoW?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
pwa
Posts: 17404
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by pwa »

kwackers wrote:
pwa wrote:I must be a bit younger. I grew up aware that there had been an Empire, but it was already in the past and not much more than a bit of history.

Which suggests to me that your peer group weren't huge brexiters, which probably means you're not overly exposed to the older imperialist viewpoint.

I've no idea just how much imperialism actually accounts for brexit, but when you only need one percent to swing it then technically pretty much anything brexiters fantasise about will give you brexit.
Must be more than 1% wanted the 350m, more than 1% want to control immigration, more than 1% are simply outright racist, more than 1% simply have a deep hatred of the EU, more than 1% don't want human rights applying to anyone but themselves etc etc.

In short, it's a rubbish headline because tbh you could apply it to pretty much anything brexiters wanted which if removed may well have changed the outcome of the vote.


Must be quite a few % hate what the EU has become but were too scared of the predicted economic meltdown to vote Leave. I know people who voted Remain with reluctance and a heavy heart. Two can play at that game.
pwa
Posts: 17404
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by pwa »

Cyril Haearn wrote:The commonwealth still exists and connects the UK with a mixed group of countries all over the world

God shave the Prince of Wales, he will be head of the commonwealth one day

But who will then be the PoW?


William.
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by Mick F »

Only if Charles becomes King.

If he dies before HMQ, it will be Andrew who is next in line to the throne as the second oldest son.
Mick F. Cornwall
Cyril Haearn
Posts: 15215
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Mick F wrote:Only if Charles becomes King.

If he dies before HMQ, it will be Andrew who is next in line to the throne as the second oldest son.

Who will then be the Duke of Cornwall?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
mercalia
Posts: 14630
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by mercalia »

Cyril Haearn wrote:The commonwealth still exists and connects the UK with a mixed group of countries all over the world

God shave the Prince of Wales, he will be head of the commonwealth one day

But who will then be the PoW?


it seems it is not a done deal - there was talk of an elected head, after queenie passes
Cyril Haearn
Posts: 15215
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Have Britain’s imperial fantasies given us Brexit??

Post by Cyril Haearn »

mercalia wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:The commonwealth still exists and connects the UK with a mixed group of countries all over the world

God shave the Prince of Wales, he will be head of the commonwealth one day

But who will then be the PoW?


it seems it is not a done deal - there was talk of an elected head, after queenie passes

Maybe Wales could have an elected president, James/Jan Morris might be suitable, a few dead prominent Welsh people occurred to me, who from the living might qualify? It would be good to have someone who speaks Cymraeg probably :wink:
Last edited by Cyril Haearn on 19 Feb 2018, 5:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Post Reply