Homelesness - How much worse does it have to get?

[thirdcrank]

I'm fortunate to have little experience here, but I think it's worth drawing a distinction between homelessness and sleeping rough. Some of the safety-net provision for homeless people is pretty rough, but it is still there. There must be various reasons why some people are not caught by that safety net and perhaps the notion of being caught is part of it.

It's worth noting that the Vagrancy Act 1824 dealt with it, using more flowery language such as "persons wandering abroad." I've just looked at the original version in PDF and it's interesting that the preamble refers to an act passed in 1823 to last a year being re-enacted and much of it is still in force today with only quite recent amendments removing the notorious "sus laws." ie Parliament could have scrapped the lot but didn't. So while hard labour and whipping are out for idle and disorderly persons; rogues and vagabonds; and incorrigible rogues, the relevant bit of the legislation remains in force. In short it's not a new problem, although it's suggested it's becoming more common.

The Vagrancy Act 1824 ends with these words, which I have only just noticed:

... nor to alter any law now in force relating to lunatic vagrants.

I don't know what the law said about "lunatic vagrants" in George IV's day but it seems that the significance of mental illness was recognised even then. (Incidentally, it looks as though that bit was only repealed in 1989.)

I think this is a part of the underlying problem. There was a rush to demolish the Victorian asylums etc., and to replace them with the nice-sounding care in the community. How often has the word community been abused? Money was saved by closing the institutions, but the necessary funding for mental health care in the community has not been provided with the same alacrity. I'm not suggesting that sleeping rough = mental illness, but I do believe there's a connection. It's worth adding that it's said that some of the people now in prison are there more because of their inadequacy / psychiatric problems rather than any real criminality.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/182 ... 083_en.pdf

[reohn2]

It seems to me there are some people who prefer not to live perminently under the same roof and some who prefer non,but I'm betting those in the latter group are very few.
I suspect most homeless people would prefer a regular home and life.

Care in the community seems to work only in part,those suffering from severe mental illness need closer attention and care in the same way people with severe physical disabilities do,it doesn't seem to be happening.

As has been posted up thread we seem to be living in an evermore selfish society that cuts taxes when services need more resources.Charities,real charities not the pseudo CUK,AA,RAC type excuses for charities that soak up government handouts,should be channelled toward real need where people are suffering.
Under this government taxes have been cut the most for those who needed it least,as we see the gap between rich and poor grow wider,add to that the seemingly inability to gather taxes to any meaningful degree from the richest and multination companies who pay little tax by loopholes that the government refuses to close.I find it a disgraceful when the PM(David Cameron) stands up in the House of Commons and declares it a victory that he's secured a 3% Tax income from a company like Google! whilst clamping down on the benefits of poorest in society.The recent revelations of the way disabled people's allowances have been unlawfully slashed and interviews dishonestly accounted is nothing short of a national scandal.
Not only that that they cut allowances to LA's year on year so much that some can barely function!
The Tories are indeed nothing more than highway robbers only where the Highwaymen of the past robbed from the richest for themselves these scum steal from the poor to give the their rich supporters,making it a crime to be poor!

[thirdcrank]

I think another factor historically - and I don't know how much this still applies today - is the concept of the man as responsible for the family, which has gone hand-in-hand with the principle of making accepting relief less pleasant than working pretty much the basis for the workhouse. For years after the Poor Law and workhouses were scrapped, emergency accommodation for homeless families would exclude the men. One of the former Leeds workhouses was still operational in all but name until the early 70's and IIRC, was only demolished because the land was needed for the M621. The safety net then was more for women and children than men.

I'm not so naïve as to overlook things like alcohol.

[reohn2]

A bit of good news perhaps:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-43083852

[reohn2]

.......I'm not so naïve as to overlook things like alcohol.

Some of which is so cheap as to be ridiculous and then there's the lastest blight on the vulnerable,Spice and similar cheap mind altering drugs

[JohnW]

...............but for one sure thing.
The rich get richer at the expense of the poor,it as ever thus with the Tories.......

Absolutely John, absolutely.

[reohn2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43085444

[irc]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43063019

The homeless man who died yards from parliament and to whom Jeremy Corbyn paid tribute was a convicted child sex abuser who re-entered the UK illegally after being deported, it has been claimed.

The death of Marcos Amaral Gourgel, 35, a Portuguese former model, in Westminster Tube station last Wednesday prompted outrage from the public and politicians, including the Labour leader, who left flowers where Gourgel died.

Yesterday it emerged that Gourgel was jailed for sexually abusing a child in the UK before being deported, according to officials quoted in the Portuguese media.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/marc ... -3ttv3krv8

The problems with homelessness in the UK are real. I have more sympathy for this man's victim than him though.

[reohn2]

The problems with homelessness in the UK are real.

And getting much worse since the Tories took control

I have more sympathy for this man's victim than him though.

I totally agree,and like the rest of the country knew nothing of his crimes when I posted the thread.
That said should people be suffering so much that they are forced to live on the streets in the fifth richest country in the world?
As for him re-entering the country after being deported,it doesn't say much for the efficiency of our border control/immigration officials after the cuts made by this government since 2010.

[irc]

The problems with homelessness in the UK are real.

And getting much worse since the Tories took control

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_England

Homeless_in_England_per_100,000_people_1998-2014.png (12.24 KiB) Viewed 434 times

Stats do show a rise since 2010 though still lower than most of the time Labour was last in govt.

[PH]

The problems with homelessness in the UK are real.

And getting much worse since the Tories took control


Homeless_in_England_per_100,000_people_1998-2014.png

Stats do show a rise since 2010 though still lower than most of the time Labour was last in govt.

Your post deserves a prize for selective quoting,
From the same linked article

However, in December 2016 the housing charity Shelter estimated homelessness in England to amount to more than 250,000 people;

In England, it had been estimated in 2007 an average of 498 people slept rough each night, with 248 of those in London.[5] But reportedly numbers sleeping rough have soared in recent years and doubled since 2010; figures reported for the 2015 count were 3,569 people rough sleeping in England on a single night, up 102% from 2010.[6]

[reohn2]

Stats do show a rise since 2010 though still lower than most of the time Labour was last in govt.

You must be mistaken,Labour haven't been in power since 1979,New Labour(Tories in Labour suits)were in power from 1997 to 2009 but not the real Labour party.
In any case the homeless figures where going steadily down under New Labour only to begin rising again under the present bunch of wmillionaires
You may wish to read this:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 11501.html
Or this :- https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homel ... r-analysis
Or the Joeph Rowntree trust's report on homelessness in the UK

[hjd10]

Stats do show a rise since 2010 though still lower than most of the time Labour was last in govt.

You must be mistaken,Labour haven't been in power since 1979,New Labour(Tories in Labour suits)were in power from 1997 to 2009 but not the real Labour party.
In any case the homeless figures where going steadily down under New Labour only to begin rising again under the present bunch of wmillionaires
You may wish to read this:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 11501.html
Or this :- https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homel ... r-analysis
Or the Joeph Rowntree trust's report on homelessness in the UK

Old Labour New Labour makes no difference, throw wads of cash at the problem then when the country is just about broke hand over to the Conservatives... The cycle continues.

[JohnW]

...............Old Labour New Labour makes no difference..................

It did make a difference, actually.

[reohn2]

Stats do show a rise since 2010 though still lower than most of the time Labour was last in govt.

You must be mistaken,Labour haven't been in power since 1979,New Labour(Tories in Labour suits)were in power from 1997 to 2009 but not the real Labour party.
In any case the homeless figures where going steadily down under New Labour only to begin rising again under the present bunch of wmillionaires
You may wish to read this:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 11501.html
Or this :- https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homel ... r-analysis
Or the Joeph Rowntree trust's report on homelessness in the UK

Old Labour New Labour makes no difference, throw wads of cash at the problem then when the country is just about broke hand over to the Conservatives... The cycle continues.

I beg to differ.
The country isn't a business,the though the Tories run it as one,getting away with paying as little as possible and giving most of the "profits" in the highest tax breaks(as in the most money)to the richest in society,whilst the poorest suffer as a result and public services are cut year on on year.
The Tories will say how much money they put into services but not that it's decreasing in real terms year on year,they'll also claim there's no "magic money tree" yet find billions to bale out themselves with no majority by buying support from the DUP,whilst at the same time apologising for an underfunded NHS.As OAP's and disabled people(real people) sit in hospitals bed blocking them whilst the the social care system falls apart around us.
I won't go into the Brexit debacle here other than to say the Tory PM who thought it a good idea to have the referendum left a clean pair of heels when it revealed the country was split down the middle on the issue due to self seeking morons who's political party comes before the country!
See above about the state of affordable housing,much hand wringing and promises but not much action upto now,and its not as if no one has known about it,it's a been steadily growing problem for years.
The banks.Need I say any more other than the country is still picking up their tab as the culprits run off down the road to the multimillion pound mansions,with the ££££s flapping out of their back pockets immune to prosecution or accountability.


I was no fan of New Labour or Tory Blair but they didn't make as much of a mess as this bunch of Hurrah Henries and Henrietas though you couldn't get a fag paper between either's sick ethics,this lot seem to me to be,other than lining the rich's pockets,the most incompetent bunch of idiots we've had the misfortune to run the ramshackle show and laughing stock the UK has become.

Someone is sure to post about the note New Labour left when leaving office saying there's nothing left in the kitty.
IT WAS BANKERS bow that money and the government who had to bale them out to save the country.