The blood suckers circle around when the pickings are rich

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

… We need teachers nurses doctors firemen police and forces but fairs fair in the end don't you think?

There is nothing inherently fair about treating public servants as unfairly as many private companies treat their employees.

I was not implying that at all.

Fairs fair when a private employee (remember all taxes come from the private sector!) are treated the same as far as pensions go.
That is that a private pension for a given wage should be similar to that if you are employed in a state job, any worker deserves fair returns across the board.

Like I said and have done many times public sector pay and pensions out strip that in the private sector, and you could also say that even in the state employed, gender is not treated fairly either.

Many of us of my age (59) started life on a factory final pay salary..................so some of us are better off than others who worked in small firms, those days are gone..............and one day there will have to be a squaring of benefits for both sides........truly its not sustainable................NHS pension deficit is beyond 1 Trillion...........how do you want to correct that.........

Back on topic I thought the Gov had sorted mismanaging pension funds.............because the safety net which is in place at the mo and also has been propping up my old final salary pension (one of several private personal pensions I have) is paid for by every tax payer, because the firm went bust.
Only just been sorted in US after many years of wrangling, the money from that is returning, unlike the ones we are discussing now.

[Vorpal]

The statistics comparing public & private salaries are baloney.

They make direct comparisons of all the people working in private sector versus all the people working in public sector.

They adjust for qualifications, but not whether jobs require them. So, effectively, they are comparing a group of generally well-qualified personnel (doctors, nurses, specialists in rights of way, or those overseeing planning applications, librarians, teachers, etc.) with people who do anything from mowing lawns, delivering pizza, stocking Tesco shelves to engineers and lawyers to CEOs. So, while it can be expected that the range is much wider in private sector, it should be no surprise that the average is slightly lower, having a higher proportion in low paid jobs. And many of the people on the low end of that scale have no pensions whatsoever because they somehow don't earn enough or don't work enough hours to 'deserve' a pension.

[pwa]

Hi,

… We need teachers nurses doctors firemen police and forces but fairs fair in the end don't you think?

There is nothing inherently fair about treating public servants as unfairly as many private companies treat their employees.

I was not implying that at all.

Fairs fair when a private employee (remember all taxes come from the private sector!) are treated the same as far as pensions go.
That is that a private pension for a given wage should be similar to that if you are employed in a state job, any worker deserves fair returns across the board.

Like I said and have done many times public sector pay and pensions out strip that in the private sector, and you could also say that even in the state employed, gender is not treated fairly either.

Many of us of my age (59) started life on a factory final pay salary..................so some of us are better off than others who worked in small firms, those days are gone..............and one day there will have to be a squaring of benefits for both sides........truly its not sustainable................NHS pension deficit is beyond 1 Trillion...........how do you want to correct that.........

Back on topic I thought the Gov had sorted mismanaging pension funds.............because the safety net which is in place at the mo and also has been propping up my old final salary pension (one of several private personal pensions I have) is paid for by every tax payer, because the firm went bust.
Only just been sorted in US after many years of wrangling, the money from that is returning, unlike the ones we are discussing now.

I don't know about other public sector jobs, but the teachers were among the first to lose pensions related to Final Salary. That went a good few years back. Those good pensions that governments used to attract young graduates in with are gone.

But this thread is about former steel industry employees, who have been given bad advice by Financial Advisers seemingly more interested in their own commission than in helping their client get the best deal. And they will get away with it.

[pete75]

The statistics comparing public & private salaries are baloney.

They make direct comparisons of all the people working in private sector versus all the people working in public sector.

They adjust for qualifications, but not whether jobs require them. So, effectively, they are comparing a group of generally well-qualified personnel (doctors, nurses, specialists in rights of way, or those overseeing planning applications, librarians, teachers, etc.) with people who do anything from mowing lawns, delivering pizza, stocking Tesco shelves to engineers and lawyers to CEOs. So, while it can be expected that range is much wider in private sector, it should be no purprise that the average is slightly lower, having a higher proportion in low paid jobs. And many of the people on the low end of that scale have no pensions whatsoever because they somehow don't earn enough or don't work enough hours to 'deserve' a pension.

Yes and a lot of the lower paid jobs in the public sector have been outsourced to the private sector. All sorts of jobs like cleaners, security men, bin men, grass cutters etc. This lowers the average private sector wage and increases the average in the public sector.

[Vorpal]

Yes and a lot of the lower paid jobs in the public sector have been outsourced to the private sector. All sorts of jobs like cleaners, security men, bin men, grass cutters etc. This lowers the average private sector wage and increases the average in the public sector.

And despite that, the gap has been closing in recent years.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

Yes and a lot of the lower paid jobs in the public sector have been outsourced to the private sector. All sorts of jobs like cleaners, security men, bin men, grass cutters etc. This lowers the average private sector wage and increases the average in the public sector.

And despite that, the gap has been closing in recent years.

But will never meet!
Closing means that they were not comparable before.

Interestingly IIRC,the media made comparisons with the young 25-35 house first time buyers being very low compared with 20 years ago, now 30 odd % down from 60 odd %, but say that they are middle England earners, which is 22 - 30K take home not gross.

We wish, I am in the camp of never earning that rate, poor comparison with real low earners.

[Vorpal]

But will never meet!
Closing means that they were not comparable before.

I meant the 'gap' as measured by the bogus statistics.

But you are right, they aren't comparable; that was my point. And the more that the low wage jobs are contracted out to the private sector, the bigger the 'gap' is likely to get, and the less comparable average earnings will be.