Billy Graham in heaven?

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Has Billy Graham gone to heaven?

Poll ended at 21 Mar 2018, 4:43pm

Yes, he is there now
0
No votes
He will be admitted when he arrives
0
No votes
Not yet, he has to be processed
0
No votes
He is waiting behind Bob Holman
0
No votes
He will spend time in purgaTory
0
No votes
No
6
29%
Don't know
2
10%
Don't care
7
33%
He will go to hell
4
19%
Who is Billy Graham?
2
10%
 
Total votes: 21

reohn2
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by reohn2 »

Bonefishblues wrote:
francovendee wrote:Greatest salesman of the century :roll:

How do you mean?

Christianity promises that if you take Jesus as your Lord and saviour* you'll go to a better place(heaven)when you die.
Its a great sales pitch without an product,the original jam tomorrow and lots of it.
That said if you follow the gospel's teaching and find nothing when you die ie; you don't wake up in heaven,then it could be argued you lead a good life and that was reward in itself,but you could do live a good life anyway.

To emphasise,good "works" according to the gospels won't get you into heaven,only the Love of Jesus as your Lord and saviour can do that and that by accepting Him as that the good "works" will naturally follow.



*first you have to agree to need saving from something(in this case hell/damnation/the devil) to require a savior.
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pete75
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by pete75 »

Bonefishblues wrote:Indeed, and yet:

Grant Wacker, a professor at the Duke University Divinity School and author of America’s Pastor: Billy Graham and the Shaping of a Nation, also says that Graham has led an exemplary life free of financial scandal. “People who didn’t like Billy Graham spent a lot of time trying to find personal violations of his moral and ethical code, and they couldn’t,” Wacker told NPR after Graham’s passing. “They didn’t exist. He was a man who maintained absolute marital fidelity and moral and financial integrity. He was an evangelist who lived the way he preached.”

Be assured that, just as with certain other evangelists, all of whom are very obvious targets, people were looking, and looking hard for the dirt.


Where did he get that 25 million from then? He certainly couldn't have saved it up from his pastor's salary.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
reohn2
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by reohn2 »

pete75 wrote:He made a good living out of preaching. Net worth about $25 million. http://time.com/money/5168865/billy-gra ... ney-greed/

Not bad for a man preaching the gospel of a penniless itinerant Arab Jewish carpenter who died horribly some 2000 years ago.
My old Dad used to say "money sorts the men out from the boys" he wasn't wrong,and whilst it's nice to live comfortable,$25 million buys a lot of comfort when so many go without,and tends to make a mockery of Luke ch3 v 11.
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mjr
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by mjr »

reohn2 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:.......Those referencing his support of communist genocide, do you have a reference/references?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Graham

I suspect that page may have been changing furiously recently!
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reohn2
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by reohn2 »

mjr wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:.......Those referencing his support of communist genocide, do you have a reference/references?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Graham

I suspect that page may have been changing furiously recently!

Yep it seems to have been "amended" :?
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by Bonefishblues »

So, in summary:

BG was a charlatan, a fraud, a hypocrite, a careerist and someone who was profiting from the weak-minded. He was a supporter of war and an advocate of mass murder. He duped successive presidents, tens of millions of ordinary people, and those who are now paying rich tribute to his life.

I'm no supporter of BG, and came to this debate with an open mind, but one can always rely on CUK Forum for the insight so sadly lacking in the rest of society, it seems.

There is, on occasion, a meanness of spirit and a lack of acceptance of difference on this Board that I find profoundly depressing. :cry:
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661-Pete
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by 661-Pete »

reohn2 wrote:
mjr wrote:

I suspect that page may have been changing furiously recently!

Yep it seems to have been "amended" :?
Time to delve into the 'history', I reckon. :wink:

For those who take exception at the existence of a 'dance-on-grave' contingent, I'll just mention that the Grauniad has not opened up their obit for comments - an unusual move for them. Speaks volumes...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by Bonefishblues »

Speaks for nothing, based on this exchange. Dance somewhere else, perhaps, were that important, as it seems to be.
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mjr
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by mjr »

Bonefishblues wrote:So, in summary:

BG was a charlatan, a fraud, a hypocrite, a careerist and someone who was profiting from the weak-minded. He was a supporter of war and an advocate of mass murder. He duped successive presidents, tens of millions of ordinary people, and those who are now paying rich tribute to his life.

I think some of that's going beyond what was written above, taking it to the most extreme negative you can.

Bonefishblues wrote:I'm no supporter of BG, and came to this debate with an open mind, but one can always rely on CUK Forum for the insight so sadly lacking in the rest of society, it seems.

There is, on occasion, a meanness of spirit and a lack of acceptance of difference on this Board that I find profoundly depressing. :cry:

It ain't mean spirited or not accepting difference to say if you disliked someone, is it?

In general, much of society will only say nice things about the recently-deceased, but several religions consider it a sin to lie about one's views ("to thine own self be true" didn't come out of nowhere) while not holding "speak no ill of the dead" as highly.

One of BG's good features is that he was reportedly very tolerant of other religions in later life (debatable in the Nixon era, as mentioned), so maybe he would understand others expressing doubts about him in response to being misrepresented as part of some sort of unanimity, as happened above.
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pwa
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by pwa »

He failed to fire up the UK as a Christian nation. It just didn't happen. Maybe he had some impact in the USA, but not here.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by Bonefishblues »

mjr wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:So, in summary:

BG was a charlatan, a fraud, a hypocrite, a careerist and someone who was profiting from the weak-minded. He was a supporter of war and an advocate of mass murder. He duped successive presidents, tens of millions of ordinary people, and those who are now paying rich tribute to his life.

I think some of that's going beyond what was written above, taking it to the most extreme negative you can.

Bonefishblues wrote:I'm no supporter of BG, and came to this debate with an open mind, but one can always rely on CUK Forum for the insight so sadly lacking in the rest of society, it seems.

There is, on occasion, a meanness of spirit and a lack of acceptance of difference on this Board that I find profoundly depressing. :cry:

It ain't mean spirited or not accepting difference to say if you disliked someone, is it?

In general, much of society will only say nice things about the recently-deceased, but several religions consider it a sin to lie about one's views ("to thine own self be true" didn't come out of nowhere) while not holding "speak no ill of the dead" as highly.

One of BG's good features is that he was reportedly very tolerant of other religions in later life (debatable in the Nixon era, as mentioned), so maybe he would understand others expressing doubts about him in response to being misrepresented as part of some sort of unanimity, as happened above.

I'm sure that he would indeed be able to rise above this. Others are weaker, unfortunately.
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by Vorpal »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... de-history

The author left out Graham's consistent denunciations of feminism, but otherwise, I think this article sums it up rather nicely.

When I was growing up, he was the origianl televangelist, telling me and my friends every Sunday (had we been inclined to listen) that we were going to burn in hell.
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661-Pete
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by 661-Pete »

Bonefishblues wrote:There is, on occasion, a meanness of spirit and a lack of acceptance of difference on this Board that I find profoundly depressing. :cry:
Do I have to talk about the anti-semitism I had to put up with as a teenager? Which I, and my parents, attributed at least in part, to the preachings of Mr Graham.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Ben@Forest
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by Ben@Forest »

Vorpal wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/21/billy-graham-wrong-side-history

The author left out Graham's consistent denunciations of feminism, but otherwise, I think this article sums it up rather nicely.


I have no real opinions on BG either way but the article includes the lines:

In a revised 2010 version of the book, Graham eliminated the phrase “global warming” from the text altogether. Global warming no longer existed in the mind of Graham as a real threat.

Though I'm sure it's true the author neglects to mention that by 2010 the phrase 'global warming' was being avoided by all sensible commentators on the subject. Because of the various different effects on different parts of the world the phrase 'climate change' became the 'more accurate' term.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Billy Graham in heaven?

Post by Bonefishblues »

661-Pete wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:There is, on occasion, a meanness of spirit and a lack of acceptance of difference on this Board that I find profoundly depressing. :cry:
Do I have to talk about the anti-semitism I had to put up with as a teenager? Which I, and my parents, attributed at least in part, to the preachings of Mr Graham.

No you don't. As you are well aware - or perhaps not - I was expressing dismay about "this Board".

If you want to particularise it to BG and his preachings though, fill your boots, it's open house today.
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