Billy Graham in heaven?

[661-Pete]

Sets me thinking:

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in an old Ford car
'Cause an old Ford car won't get that far

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in a ping pong ball
'Cause a ping pong ball is much too small

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in a limousine
'Cause the Lord ain't got no gasoline

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in a Sabre Jet
'Cause the Lord ain't got no runways yet

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in a Girl Scout's arms
'Cause the Lord don't fall for those feminine charms

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in a rocking chair
'Cause the Lord don't want no lazybones there

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in a wicker chair
'Cause the Lord don't want no baskets there

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in a biscuit tin
'Cause a biscuit tin's got biscuits in

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in an apple tree
'Cause an apple tree's got roots you see

Oh, you can't get to Heaven on roller skates
You'd roll right by them Pearly Gates

You'll never get to heaven in your girlfriend's bra
'Cause your girlfriend's bra can't stretch that far

Oh, you can't get to Heaven on a Honda bike
'Cause you'll get halfway, then you'll have to hike

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in our row boat
'Cause our row boat won't even float.

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in dirty jeans
'Cause heaven's got no washing machines.

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in a Kleenex box
'Cause God don't like no dirty snots.

Oh, you can't get to Heaven on a pair of skis
You'll shuss right through St. Peter's knees.

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in our Leader's pants
'Cause his pants are full of ants

Oh, you can't get to Heaven on water skis
'Cause the angels don't like hairy knees

Oh, you can't get to Heaven with powder and paint
'Cause it makes you look like what you ain't

Oh, you can't get to Heaven in a strapless gown
'Cause that gown thing might fall right down

So which one will Billy be choosing?

[reohn2]

I'm not usually one to say this, but this thread, and in particular having a poll seems in rather bad taste, given he's literally just died, and irrespective of one's views of his religion, there seems to be unanimity that this was a profoundly decent man.

he and his copycat sidekicks like Dick Saunders espoused an obscene type of "personal" religeon "Jesus is your ( personal) friend who is here with you now, by your side" that exploited the immaturity and vulnerability of young people asking the important questions of identity. There is that old saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I see the poll has been terminated. shame.

TBF the personal savior of Jesus Christ is pretty standard belief in Protestant Christianity.
Whether Billy Graham and his organisation exploited people of any age or whether they honestly believed in what they were doing is anyone's guess.b
I tend to judge people like that on their personal wealth,as it's usually a good indicator,though the idea of bombing and killing upto a one million people because they don't believe what ou believe seems a bit mad IMO and is a more obvious indicator in this case.

[mercalia]

I'm not usually one to say this, but this thread, and in particular having a poll seems in rather bad taste, given he's literally just died, and irrespective of one's views of his religion, there seems to be unanimity that this was a profoundly decent man.

he and his copycat sidekicks like Dick Saunders espoused an obscene type of "personal" religeon "Jesus is your ( personal) friend who is here with you now, by your side" that exploited the immaturity and vulnerability of young people asking the important questions of identity. There is that old saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I see the poll has been terminated. shame.

TBF the personal savior of Jesus Christ is pretty standard belief in Protestant Christianity.
Whether Billy Graham and his organisation exploited people of any age or whether they honestly believed in what they were doing is anyone's guess.b
I tend to judge people like that on their personal wealth,as it's usually a good indicator,though the idea of bombing and killing upto a one million people because they don't believe what ou believe seems a bit mad IMO and is a more obvious indicator in this case.

I dont think you understand the twist he and his type of funtamentalist evengelical did to the idea of a personal saviour - jesus became a big brother figure not just some one who saves you you had a personal relationship with him some one to take all your worries and concerns to in prayer as you might a friend. a sickening notion for vulnerable young minds. Futhermore his breed believed in signs whereby jesus might communicate his intentions and purposes for your life. a sickening idea.

[Bonefishblues]

Why sickening?

[661-Pete]

Why sickening?

To be serious for a moment - I regard the actions and personality of this man as deeply disturbing and disquieting. Religious faith is one thing - trying to instil his beliefs in a huge, naive and unwitting audience is quite another. And when does 'evangelising' extend so far as to become 'proselytising'?

Wind the clock back 55 years or so. There were a group of kids at my school - I suppose I'll have to refer to them as 'schoolfriends' but they were forever trying to coax me into coming with them to these mass meetings of BG's - he was touring Britain at the time. I said no - not interested - but these kids wouldn't let up. Were they trying to prise me away from the influence and support of my parents? I wouldn't refer to them as 'fundies' but they were certainly indoctrinated to some extent.

I have not maintained any contact with these guys, since leaving school. My mother was for a while friends with the mother of one of these boys. Apparently even she was concerned at the path her son was following.

Another thought. Were the BG-swayed generation, those who later gave us Trump?

No. Sorry, I'm no fan of BG and I do not regret his passing. Let others mourn if they wish to.

[reohn2]

I dont think you understand the twist he and his type of funtamentalist evengelical did to the idea of a personal saviour - jesus became a big brother figure not just some one who saves you you had a personal relationship with him some one to take all your worries and concerns to in prayer as you might a friend. a sickening notion for vulnerable young minds. Futhermore his breed believed in signs whereby jesus might communicate his intentions and purposes for your life. a sickening idea.

I do understand,I know how that system works,I've been in it,examined it close up and rejected it,one thing's for sure though,stopped me walking away from the church.
But don't think all evangelical Christians are bad people,they're not,I know some very sincere and honest evangelical Christians who truly believe what they believe.Billy Graham may have too.
What concerns me most is the switch from one form of shackling and imprisonement to another which goes on both inside religion ,any relgion,and outside of it.
Billy Graham like everyone else wasn't perfect,and his idea of perfection* wasn't mine which is illustrated by his plan to kill upto 1 million people because he thought communism was so bad it warranted it.As you say,a sickening idea.

*is perfection an absolute or a compromise brought about by circumstance?

[Bonefishblues]

The spreading of the gospel at the heart of the evangelical movement - put simply it's what it exists to do. It's what keeps our next door neighbours putting literature through our door... BG was bigger and bolder in his method and message than just about anyone else.

Those referencing his support of communist genocide, do you have a reference/references?

[mercalia]

Why sickening?

To be serious for a moment - I regard the actions and personality of this man as deeply disturbing and disquieting. Religious faith is one thing - trying to instil his beliefs in a huge, naive and unwitting audience is quite another. And when does 'evangelising' extend so far as to become 'proselytising'?

Wind the clock back 55 years or so. There were a group of kids at my school - I suppose I'll have to refer to them as 'schoolfriends' but they were forever trying to coax me into coming with them to these mass meetings of BG's - he was touring Britain at the time. I said no - not interested - but these kids wouldn't let up. Were they trying to prise me away from the influence and support of my parents? I wouldn't refer to them as 'fundies' but they were certainly indoctrinated to some extent.

I have not maintained any contact with these guys, since leaving school. My mother was for a while friends with the mother of one of these boys. Apparently even she was concerned at the path her son was following.

Another thought. Were the BG-swayed generation, those who later gave us Trump?

No. Sorry, I'm no fan of BG and I do not regret his passing. Let others mourn if they wish to.

at the time there was a local church in my home town that was very much under the sway of his movement drawing all the young people in trying to save them for Jesus, going around the caravans to try and attract the holiday makers, having out reach coffee bar like set ups in the church hall - always the young youths or girls. Singing those horrible gospel songs "how we have a friend in Jesus" I suppose offering friendship to the lonely and vulnerable and a place to belong. I seem to remember the other churches were very worried at these "outreaches" Makes me shudder now. BG should have gone into advertising, his original choice, and not tarnished the innocence of a generation


regarding the idea that not all evangelicals are bad people - BG wasnt I think also but that highly personal brand of religeon they follow is a dangerous fantasy, you dont have to be evil to be dangerous just seriuosly wrong

[pete75]

He made a good living out of preaching. Net worth about $25 million. http://time.com/money/5168865/billy-gra ... ney-greed/

[Bonefishblues]

Indeed, and yet:

Grant Wacker, a professor at the Duke University Divinity School and author of America’s Pastor: Billy Graham and the Shaping of a Nation, also says that Graham has led an exemplary life free of financial scandal. “People who didn’t like Billy Graham spent a lot of time trying to find personal violations of his moral and ethical code, and they couldn’t,” Wacker told NPR after Graham’s passing. “They didn’t exist. He was a man who maintained absolute marital fidelity and moral and financial integrity. He was an evangelist who lived the way he preached.”

Be assured that, just as with certain other evangelists, all of whom are very obvious targets, people were looking, and looking hard for the dirt.

[francovendee]

Greatest salesman of the century

[Bonefishblues]

Greatest salesman of the century

How do you mean?

[661-Pete]

Another comment about the 'happy-clappy' brigade - not necessarily BG-inspired. One warm and sunny Saturday, many years ago, they were busy at it, tambourines and all, in our town centre, entertaining the shoppers in full cry. OK. There was also a busker, on the opposite side of the square, strumming away at his guitar, in the hope of collecting a few coppers to boost his meagre (if any) income.

Needless to say, the twin outpourings of contrasting music didn't quite blend into perfect harmony, so after a while the leader of the evangelist troupe walked over to the busker and (I presume) asked him quietly if he wouldn't mind desisting.

The busker then shouted out in a loud voice, so that everyone in the square could hear him, "You're not being very Christian are you?"

Enough said...

[mjr]

Those referencing his support of communist genocide, do you have a reference/references?

"Bomber" Graham is a fairly oft made allegation during my lifetime. At the very least, Graham reportedly supported every USA war since Korea, including Nixon and Vietnam. Example reference including the specific Vietnam bombing accusation that's easy to view https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018 ... fades-away but I'm sure there's plenty of others.

[reohn2]

.......Those referencing his support of communist genocide, do you have a reference/references?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Graham