Cycling UK Forum

It could be said that IT isn't a cycling issue; other than the fact that internet based mapping, route planning, shopping for parts, rail/ferry/plane tickets, the weather forecast and cycling forums is all online (At least on my part).

I was a bit shocked to find that my new Windows 10, 18 month old laptop package is no longer supported by Microsoft in respect to internet use (XP etc, lasted 10-12 years, my Windows 10 Version 1507 lasted a year; apparently Windows 10 versions can be beyond support months after introduction. I can't update easily, as I use mobile broadband - I tried and wasted £30 PAYG data trying to update to the next version, the systems invariably crashing prior to completion. (Nb. I've since read that Microsoft state updates can't be completed using metered PAYG connections)

Does it matter if I access the internet, via a Windows 10 package no longer benefiting from Microsoft security updates etc, etc? I've not had a problem with viruses/malware in ten months use of Windows 10 in an unsupported state (Nb. My intention being to source a free WIFI connection one day and update via that).

Or am I likely to find my bank accounts & pension funds emptied overnight, if I I log onto Spa Cycles, bike hike or the Met Office? And will I now be forced to purchase a "landline internet connection" or spend a fortune getting PC World et al to update Windows every six months?

I, and I suspect load of other users from reading on the Net, turn updates off primarily for performance reasons. Using a good anti-virus and firewall (which are kept up to date) and applying selective updates if there is a major problem, has been ok for me and 3 other pc's in the house for well over 5 years now - so NO, i wouldn't lose too much sleep.

Do regular backups of your files, and keep passwords different for different account, safe and changed from time to time and I think that the risk is pretty minimal. Also don't store bank and other important passwords, but type them in each time you use them, so they are not held on your pc.

Thanks, I've been meaning to review my anti-virus/firewall, though I do update them as a matter of routine. I'll give them a review and limit my internet access to financially critical accounts via other pc's, until I've sorted out a Microsoft update.

I'm still using XP on one of our computers (the one I'm typing on at present, as it happens). The other two are W7 and W10 respectively: Mrs P uses the W10 one most of the time.

On this machine, I don't get much in the way of problems with existing applications. I've downloaded one or two new ones to discover (understandably) that they don't work on XP, so I transferred them to the W7 machine where they seem to be OK. I do find that some browsing doesn't work very well now - in particular, since the Guardian updated both their paper and online versions a few weeks ago, I find that images don't always come up properly on their site. But this forum works just fine!

But at least with the XP, I'm not plagued by updates from Microsoft any more. A right PITP they used to be!

If you're using an old unsupported operating system on the public internet, you are the equivalent of that big pile of birdseed in the Roadrunner cartoons for online ne'erdowells. If you don't want to pay Microsoft and their hardware makers, or Apple for their current products, please switch to one of the not-for-profit projects like Debian which will run for years on older hardware, with full security support. It's not a completely smooth transition because the systems are different, from different heritages, but once it works, it generally doesn't change quickly.

sack windows ...Go for a Mac.... I am a convert

it gets a few weeks to get your head around the differences but its way easier / more stable ... and easy peasy to use...

661-Pete wrote:I'm still using XP on one of our computers...... I do find that some browsing doesn't work very well now :

But given that it's been years since XP has been supported by Microsoft with security packs, surely all of your bank accounts, pension plans, email accounts, utility accounts et al, have been taken over by malware?

My concern relates to the security of using my laptop online until I resolve the technical issues related to updating it (Nb. I only found out on Tuesday, that security support via Microsoft was withdrawn last May)

cyclemad wrote:sack windows ...Go for a Mac.... I am a convert

it gets a few weeks to get your head around the differences but its way easier / more stable ... and easy peasy to use...

+1

gbnz wrote:It could be said that IT isn't a cycling issue; other than the fact that internet based mapping, route planning, shopping for parts, rail/ferry/plane tickets, the weather forecast and cycling forums is all online (At least on my part).

I was a bit shocked to find that my new Windows 10, 18 month old laptop package is no longer supported by Microsoft in respect to internet use (XP etc, lasted 10-12 years, my Windows 10 Version 1507 lasted a year; apparently Windows 10 versions can be beyond support months after introduction. I can't update easily, as I use mobile broadband - I tried and wasted £30 PAYG data trying to update to the next version, the systems invariably crashing prior to completion. (Nb. I've since read that Microsoft state updates can't be completed using metered PAYG connections)

Does it matter if I access the internet, via a Windows 10 package no longer benefiting from Microsoft security updates etc, etc? I've not had a problem with viruses/malware in ten months use of Windows 10 in an unsupported state (Nb. My intention being to source a free WIFI connection one day and update via that).

Or am I likely to find my bank accounts & pension funds emptied overnight, if I I log onto Spa Cycles, bike hike or the Met Office? And will I now be forced to purchase a "landline internet connection" or spend a fortune getting PC World et al to update Windows every six months?

Could you use a friend's wifi for the fairly short time needed? Or could you buy a rolling one month mobile data contract (with a large or unlimited data limit of course) and then cancel it when it's no longer needed?

gbnz wrote:

661-Pete wrote:I'm still using XP on one of our computers...... I do find that some browsing doesn't work very well now :

But given that it's been years since XP has been supported by Microsoft with security packs, surely all of your bank accounts, pension plans, email accounts, utility accounts et al, have been taken over by malware?

My concern relates to the security of using my laptop online until I resolve the technical issues related to updating it (Nb. I only found out on Tuesday, that security support via Microsoft was withdrawn last May)

Depends what you use your computer for. If it's for 'dark web' and 'watching porn' on 'free' sites then XP is probably a poor choice.

As for macs, does it run the software you want? OSX is still poor at supporting a lot of the software I use and even when a version does exist sometimes it's crippled compared to the Win version. A lot of developers simply develop for the most popular platforms - hence why windows gets hit by viruses more often than Macs.

That's changing, partly because there are more macs but also because the low hanging fruit has all gone.
Also ime a lot of mac owners are moving away from macs now because frankly; Apple have lost the plot. There is no 'good' mac anymore that costs a reasonable amount of cash. (Good of course depending on what you want; if you just want a bit of web browsing, simple document editing etc then buy a cheap computer and put linux on it).

If you haven't you should have two factor authentication turned on for most sites you value. Even if you had my bank/pension/email passwords etc you still couldn't move cash around.

(I'm currently typing this on a macbook pro just in case anyone thinks I'm a windows fanbois - although in the interests of full disclosure it's currently running windows 7 )

kwackers wrote: ... windows fanbois ...

Just found a new word there, although that seems to be the plural

(NB I said found rather than learned, because I'll have forgotten it just as quickly, and not only because the grey matter needs some sort of system upgrade. )

kwackers wrote:...Also ime a lot of mac owners are moving away from macs now because frankly; Apple have lost the plot. There is no 'good' mac anymore that costs a reasonable amount of cash. (Good of course depending on what you want; if you just want a bit of web browsing, simple document editing etc then buy a cheap computer and put linux on it).
.....

Also I've found that over recent years OS X/macOS has become increasingly buggy. Some serious, others just very irritating (and probably with trivial fixes!). And I don't think these bugs have crept in from corresponding complexity but just from lack of care and lack of attention to detail.

When I first switched to Mac (9 years ago) OS X was very robust, these days far far more problems (with the Operating System, no talking about applications).

Ian

mjr wrote:If you're using an old unsupported operating system on the public internet, you are the equivalent of that big pile of birdseed in the Roadrunner cartoons for online ne'erdowells.

gbnz wrote:But given that it's been years since XP has been supported by Microsoft with security packs, surely all of your bank accounts, pension plans, email accounts, utility accounts et al, have been taken over by malware?

Yeah - how many times have I heard all this before?! Talk about swallowing all the big software outfits' mega-hype! Of course they want you to upgrade - it's they way they keep making their money!

As it happens I - and the probably millions of others also using 'old unsupported' OS's - have had no security problems whatsoever. One day I may be unlucky, but I'm pretty careful online, and follow all the usual precautions. And furthermore, the bulk of MS updates that I have seen coming through in the past, have been tagged "Genuine Advantage" or similar. These, of course, are nothing to do with 'protecting' you, the customer. They're to protect MS's cash cow against piracy - as the hackers get more and more clever!

If you don't want to pay Microsoft and their hardware makers...

This is emphatically nothing whatsoever to do with money. I recently shelled out over £100 on a third party software package that I wanted to use (nothing to do with cycling). It only works on the W7 and W10 machines as it happens, but I'm comfortable with that - you can't expect third-party providers to cover every variant of non-compatible OS's. Anyway, I'll happily pay for something if I need to.

I happen to keep on the XP because I have some old software that won't run on anything later - which I still use occasionally. And before anyone screams "DosBox" at me - I've been there. Fine for games, but far too slow for some other applications.

661-Pete wrote:I happen to keep on the XP because I have some old software that won't run on anything later - which I still use occasionally. And before anyone screams "DosBox" at me - I've been there. Fine for games, but far too slow for some other applications.

Fine for games? Games are the most demanding application for computers bar none (unless you're playing old or simple games).
There's a reason a 'gaming' pc costs an arm and a leg.

I run stuff in XP on this mac using Win 7's built in VM. It works pretty well, not quite full speed but near enough (I wouldn't play games on it though, but then no game I play still works in XP). Can't say I've tried Dosbox so can't comment.
I'd switch to Win 10 on it but I can't get the Win 10 vm to run XP, although I haven't spent too long trying.

My "gaming" pc and my "work" PC's run Win 10 and my machine control PC's in my workshop run Win 7 (and I've more Linux hardware than I can begin to count).

gbnz wrote:II tried and wasted £30 PAYG data trying to update to the next version, the systems invariably crashing prior to completion. (Nb. I've since read that Microsoft state updates can't be completed using metered PAYG connections)

It may be easier to download the ISO or create a bootable USB flash drive containing the upgrade. Once created it can be tried multiple times or used to update multiple devices.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/softwar ... /windows10

Worth noting that you need to run the download tool as administrator.