R I P Sir Ken Dodd (90)

[mercalia]

A few days ago I was watching a bit of Till Death Us Do Part with the monstrous bigot Alf Garnett as the central character. I could see why in these (overly?) sensitive times much of the content could not be aired now, but it was still very funny. I was doing what the writer intended, laughing at a ridiculous bigot and his petty prejudices. Even his own family laugh at him and his wife calls him a "pig". Very clever, very relevant and very funny. Dated only in that we have become afraid to portray bigotry as funny, which I understand but I also think is a shame. We used to regard laughing at Alf Garnett or comedy portrayals of Hitler as a way of countering the poison, but now we have to silence that sort of humour because some might not understand that the central character is being mocked by the writer.

yes a classic tv series. I can still see his facial gestures. And his hurt look

[kwackers]

A few days ago I was watching a bit of Till Death Us Do Part with the monstrous bigot Alf Garnett as the central character. I could see why in these (overly?) sensitive times much of the content could not be aired now, but it was still very funny. I was doing what the writer intended, laughing at a ridiculous bigot and his petty prejudices. Even his own family laugh at him and his wife calls him a "pig". Very clever, very relevant and very funny. Dated only in that we have become afraid to portray bigotry as funny, which I understand but I also think is a shame. We used to regard laughing at Alf Garnett or comedy portrayals of Hitler as a way of countering the poison, but now we have to silence that sort of humour because some might not understand that the central character is being mocked by the writer.

For most folk that level of bigotry doesn't exist any more. So I'd question the idea that it's relevant and funny.
Most youngsters wouldn't understand it at all, their bigoted old relatives are probably long gone so they would never be exposed to it. Where bigotry does exist its in a much more subtle form these days, hence the "I'm not racist but" stuff we've see a lot of recently.

Personally I find it embarrassing rather than funny. I saw a bit of an episode of 'Love Thy Neighbour' the other day and it was cringeworthy in the extreme, yet when it first aired I found it amusing but back then that level of bigotry was everywhere and so it had relevance.

[Bonefishblues]

It may be useful to illustrate how far we've come, if nothing else.

[661-Pete]

Even in the days of Alf Garnett, some things were taboo on BBC (which probably wouldn't be taboo - at least not after the watershed - today: for instance, the f-word). According to wiki, originally the scriptwriters wanted Alf to address Else as "silly old cow" but that was firmly vetoed by the Beeb. So they substituted "silly old mare" - but Warren Mitchell misquoted the line as "silly old moo". And hence arose one of the most famous catchphrases in British TV sitcom...

[JohnW]

A few days ago I was watching a bit of Till Death Us Do Part with the monstrous bigot Alf Garnett as the central character. I could see why in these (overly?) sensitive times much of the content could not be aired now, but it was still very funny. I was doing what the writer intended, laughing at a ridiculous bigot and his petty prejudices. Even his own family laugh at him and his wife calls him a "pig". Very clever, very relevant and very funny. Dated only in that we have become afraid to portray bigotry as funny, which I understand but I also think is a shame. We used to regard laughing at Alf Garnett or comedy portrayals of Hitler as a way of countering the poison, but now we have to silence that sort of humour because some might not understand that the central character is being mocked by the writer.

Yes, I can understand what you say - and I think you're right. But beware of the thought police.

[pwa]

A few days ago I was watching a bit of Till Death Us Do Part with the monstrous bigot Alf Garnett as the central character. I could see why in these (overly?) sensitive times much of the content could not be aired now, but it was still very funny. I was doing what the writer intended, laughing at a ridiculous bigot and his petty prejudices. Even his own family laugh at him and his wife calls him a "pig". Very clever, very relevant and very funny. Dated only in that we have become afraid to portray bigotry as funny, which I understand but I also think is a shame. We used to regard laughing at Alf Garnett or comedy portrayals of Hitler as a way of countering the poison, but now we have to silence that sort of humour because some might not understand that the central character is being mocked by the writer.

For most folk that level of bigotry doesn't exist any more. So I'd question the idea that it's relevant and funny.
Most youngsters wouldn't understand it at all, their bigoted old relatives are probably long gone so they would never be exposed to it. Where bigotry does exist its in a much more subtle form these days, hence the "I'm not racist but" stuff we've see a lot of recently.

Personally I find it embarrassing rather than funny. I saw a bit of an episode of 'Love Thy Neighbour' the other day and it was cringeworthy in the extreme, yet when it first aired I found it amusing but back then that level of bigotry was everywhere and so it had relevance.

Till Death Us Do Part was sharp and funny, but Love Thy Neighbour was naff even when it was new. One thing that made Alf funny was that the writer had surrounded him with a family who disagreed with him and wound him up.

[kwackers]

Till Death Us Do Part was sharp and funny, but Love Thy Neighbour was naff even when it was new. One thing that made Alf funny was that the writer had surrounded him with a family who disagreed with him and wound him up.

I've only seen the occasional clip from it for the longest time. I try to avoid most humour I found funny back in 'the' day, esp humour based on social constructs.
As Bonefishblues says "it can be useful to illustrate how far we've come" and in that respect I'm pleased its no longer relevant although I appreciate the part it played in changing things.

[pwa]

Till Death Us Do Part was sharp and funny, but Love Thy Neighbour was naff even when it was new. One thing that made Alf funny was that the writer had surrounded him with a family who disagreed with him and wound him up.

I've only seen the occasional clip from it for the longest time. I try to avoid most humour I found funny back in 'the' day, esp humour based on social constructs.
As Bonefishblues says "it can be useful to illustrate how far we've come" and in that respect I'm pleased its no longer relevant although I appreciate the part it played in changing things.

It did help change things and if you compare early ones with later ones you even see that bigoted old Alf has changed a bit for the better. It doesn't matter too much that the society around him is not quite that of today. You are watching something from the 60s or 70s, set in the 60s or 70s, and you should allow yourself to appreciate it in that way. The society is that of another era, but the humorous treatment of it is crisp and works for today's audience. You are laughing at the bigot, siding with his family against him as he struggles to accept the changing world around him. You laugh as his frustration leads him to rage. It may now be a period piece, but it is still funny and it is still okay to laugh at it.

[mercalia]

an interesting page from the BBC, putting Dodd into context

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-43384382

[geocycle]

Talk of the tax issue reminded me of the tabloid headline at the time

Ken Dodd has two new helpers: Diddy Payit and Diddyhell!

[mercalia]

Talk of the tax issue reminded me of the tabloid headline at the time

Ken Dodd has two new helpers: Diddy Payit and Diddyhell!

well those are better than any jokes he ever made

[reohn2]

Talk of the tax issue reminded me of the tabloid headline at the time

Ken Dodd has two new helpers: Diddy Payit and Diddyhell!

well those are better than any jokes he ever made

I suggest you're in a small minorty,he was highly regarded by a huge majority and by many other comedians as one of the greats of stand up clown comedy.

[mercalia]

Talk of the tax issue reminded me of the tabloid headline at the time

Ken Dodd has two new helpers: Diddy Payit and Diddyhell!

well those are better than any jokes he ever made

I suggest you're in a small minorty,he was highly regarded by a huge majority and by many other comedians as one of the greats of stand up clown comedy.

and many people used to think the world was flat

[reohn2]

well those are better than any jokes he ever made

I suggest you're in a small minorty,he was highly regarded by a huge majority and by many other comedians as one of the greats of stand up clown comedy.

and many people used to think the world was flat

Which has nothing at all to do with comedy.
Like music,different tastes means there's different music,and so it is with comedy.
Just because you find comedian A funny and comedian B unfunny,doesn't mean B isn't funny only that s/he isn't funny to your taste,but if the majority find B funny then s/he is funny.
Apply that to Ken Dodd and I think you'll find he was funny,his long and illustrious career is testament to that.
If it werent so he wouldn't have made such a successful career in comedy,if you dont like his comedy then at least be appreciative of it!

[JohnW]

I'm with r2.......