Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

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tatanab
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Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby tatanab » 13 Mar 2018, 8:35am

^^^^^^ which is no good because they don't comply with the law themselves. Policeman living on my street parks his police car on the pavement when he pops home. Not official business, so no excuse. Recent news article about a murder (I think) showed half a dozen police cars outside the property with every single one on the pavement and some within 10m of a junction as well. I suppose their excuse is "official business".

Mike Sales
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby Mike Sales » 13 Mar 2018, 8:46am

My impression is that most motorists don't think they are properly parked unless they have at least two wheels on the pavement. Even when there is plenty of room on the road they have to use the pavement.

pwa
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby pwa » 13 Mar 2018, 10:13am

One thing that people forget is that pavement parking is not illegal. It is not in itself against the law. If people think that is wrong they should campaign to make it illegal, but at the moment it is banned only where a local by-law exists. Otherwise, it is a matter of whether a particular instance of pavement parking is causing an obstruction, which is down to the opinion of whoever is doing the enforcement. If they exist.

pwa
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby pwa » 13 Mar 2018, 10:15am

Mike Sales wrote:My impression is that most motorists don't think they are properly parked unless they have at least two wheels on the pavement. Even when there is plenty of room on the road they have to use the pavement.


I'm not sure it is "most" motorists, but yes, there are some who seem to want to be partly on the pavement even when there is lots of room on the road. I find that hard to understand.

kwackers
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby kwackers » 13 Mar 2018, 10:33am

pwa wrote:I'm not sure it is "most" motorists, but yes, there are some who seem to want to be partly on the pavement even when there is lots of room on the road. I find that hard to understand.

It's easy to understand; first thing to realise is folk don't think. Thinking is expensive and slow so we're designed to simply 'do' according to social norms and pavement parking has become a social norm which means no thinking, you simply pull up and put two wheels on the kerb.

Now folk who put the entire car on the kerb are thinking about it because it's not a social norm, they've decided their car is more important than your right to use the pavement. In a few years when everyone puts their entire car on the kerb then that too will a result of not thinking, simply following the sheep.

FWIW I think "most" is about right.

pwa
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby pwa » 13 Mar 2018, 10:42am

kwackers wrote:
pwa wrote:I'm not sure it is "most" motorists, but yes, there are some who seem to want to be partly on the pavement even when there is lots of room on the road. I find that hard to understand.

It's easy to understand; first thing to realise is folk don't think. Thinking is expensive and slow so we're designed to simply 'do' according to social norms and pavement parking has become a social norm which means no thinking, you simply pull up and put two wheels on the kerb.

Now folk who put the entire car on the kerb are thinking about it because it's not a social norm, they've decided their car is more important than your right to use the pavement. In a few years when everyone puts their entire car on the kerb then that too will a result of not thinking, simply following the sheep.

FWIW I think "most" is about right.


But just looking at a typical (former) council estate that I know, the roads are a bit narrow but drivers / residents mostly seem to have a default of not putting wheels on the pavement.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5231174 ... 6?hl=en-GB

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby kwackers » 13 Mar 2018, 10:53am

pwa wrote:But just looking at a typical (former) council estate that I know, the roads are a bit narrow but drivers / residents mostly seem to have a default of not putting wheels on the pavement.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5231174 ... 6?hl=en-GB

Except for the one that's completely on the pavement. :wink:

Because it's social it's area specific. Quite possibly someone took a stand there or perhaps nobody has yet been 'first' but obviously it's not the social norm.
Where I live it's endemic - but there's one road there that for some reason nobody parks on the pavement and it's a fairly narrow road too.

One of the reasons I moved was to get away from pavement parking because my neighbours drove me daft with it. And for no reason - they all have drives but it's easier to just bump up onto the kerb than park on the drive (and have to reverse off).

JohnW
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby JohnW » 13 Mar 2018, 11:07am

Mike Sales wrote:My impression is that most motorists don't think they are properly parked unless they have at least two wheels on the pavement. Even when there is plenty of room on the road they have to use the pavement.

It's the motorists' religion.

JohnW
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby JohnW » 13 Mar 2018, 11:20am

pete75 wrote:We already have a device to combat pavement parking - all that's needed is the will.


Image

That's the root of it Pete - but with motorists at the helm of every authority, from Planners, to highway engineers, to politicians, to the legal profession...................................there'll never be the will to change. To them, 'buses are a nuisance, pedestrians are a nuisance, cyclists are a nuisance, Pelikan crossings are a nuisance, street and parking wardens are a nuisance.............even other motorists are a nuisance.

Many years ago I was on a local road safety committee; I was cycling representative, a lady was locally representing 'walkers', and the others were motorists and small-town politicians - even a trucking company owner. Something had happened that brought drinking and driving onto the agenda. A poll was taken on what reasons we could give for not drinking and driving, and of about 20 on the committee only two of us didn't believe that the main reason for not drinking and driving was that you'd loose your license if caught..............only two of us suggested that the possibility of killing someone was a reason for not drinking and driving, and the other members (except the chairwoman, who was a star) couldn't understand us, never mind credit us. The copper (who was an observer and didn't have a vote) said "that's the problem".

AlaninWales
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby AlaninWales » 13 Mar 2018, 11:30am

pwa wrote:One thing that people forget is that pavement parking is not illegal. It is not in itself against the law. If people think that is wrong they should campaign to make it illegal, but at the moment it is banned only where a local by-law exists. Otherwise, it is a matter of whether a particular instance of pavement parking is causing an obstruction, which is down to the opinion of whoever is doing the enforcement. If they exist.

Sort of:
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01170/SN01170.pdf
This seems to agree that it is "not in itself against the law"
There is no national prohibition against either on-street or pavement parking except in the
latter case in London and more widely in relation to heavy commercial vehicles.

But the next paragraph makes it clear that this is an enforcement choice:
However, it is an offence to drive onto the pavement , whether with intention to park or
not. Because this is a criminal offence, as opposed to the vast majority of civil parking
offences, it is enforceable by the police, not the local authority. There have long been
concerns about the extent to which this is enforced.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby Cyril Haearn » 13 Mar 2018, 3:45pm

kwackers wrote:
pwa wrote:But just looking at a typical (former) council estate that I know, the roads are a bit narrow but drivers / residents mostly seem to have a default of not putting wheels on the pavement.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5231174 ... 6?hl=en-GB

Except for the one that's completely on the pavement. :wink:

Because it's social it's area specific. Quite possibly someone took a stand there or perhaps nobody has yet been 'first' but obviously it's not the social norm.
Where I live it's endemic - but there's one road there that for some reason nobody parks on the pavement and it's a fairly narrow road too.

One of the reasons I moved was to get away from pavement parking because my neighbours drove me daft with it. And for no reason - they all have drives but it's easier to just bump up onto the kerb than park on the drive (and have to reverse off).

Should there be a law that, when one has a drive/parking space/garage, one must use it?
What about insurance? Vehicles parked on the road attract higher premiums, right? Do the insurers know?
I understand that one should reverse in and drive out where possible, right?
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pwa
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby pwa » 13 Mar 2018, 3:54pm

I park on the street rather than in my drive because it is easier, quicker and the narrowness of the drive makes opening the doors a bit fiddly. And if I leave the space in front of my house free it will be filled by a neighbour's car. I don't put wheels on the pavement and the street is wide enough to take the parked cars so there is no problem. The bin lorries and fire engines can get past with ease.

tatanab
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby tatanab » 13 Mar 2018, 4:12pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:I understand that one should reverse in and drive out where possible, right?
Correct. You do not reverse into the flow of traffic. Some years ago a police occifer told me of a conversation with a motorist wher he had told said driver rhat if he was involved in a collision whilst reversing into the road then he would be done for careless driving. Those were the days!

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby Cyril Haearn » 13 Mar 2018, 4:42pm

I seem to remember reading or hearing that parking on pavements is allowed but driving on pavements is illegal
Or was it the other way round?

I do enjoy annoying normal drivers when I drive out of my leafy suburb. There is a narrow bit of road with a pavement with a low kerb. I will not mount the pavement, I stop opposite a gap instead. Normal drivers often mount the kerb to let me by but I wait instead. I doubt very much whether they 'think' anything
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Mike Sales
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby Mike Sales » 13 Mar 2018, 4:49pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:I seem to remember reading or hearing that parking on pavements is allowed but driving on pavements is illegal
Or was it the other way round?



I think that is about right. Also, obstructing the pavement is illegal.
I once saw a WPC walking in the road around a car completely blocking the pavement. I commented that I thought such parking was illegal, but she merely tittered.