Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

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Cunobelin
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby Cunobelin » 15 Mar 2018, 6:05am

cyclemad wrote:just seen the original post...what a stupid ''invention''

Supposed a person is running along at night in lightweight thin soled training shoes....steps on device.....OUCH !!!!!!

Emergency vehicles won't like it either


waste of time and effort.



As the device is designed to be safe for legitimate users of the pavement, this is a little "speculative", and ironically the risk to the disabled and visually impaired is far less of a threat than the illegal, antisocial and selfishly parked vehicles it would prevent

Emergency vehicles are the same, if the device stopped the moronic parking that abounds, the roads would be clearer, giving faster responses and greater access to patients

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby Cyril Haearn » 15 Mar 2018, 6:09am

Cunobelin wrote:
cyclemad wrote:just seen the original post...what a stupid ''invention''

Supposed a person is running along at night in lightweight thin soled training shoes....steps on device.....OUCH !!!!!!

Emergency vehicles won't like it either


waste of time and effort.



As the device is designed to be safe for legitimate users of the pavement, this is a little "speculative", and ironically the risk to the disabled and visually impaired is far less of a threat than the illegal, antisocial and selfishly parked vehicles it would prevent

Emergency vehicles are the same, if the device stopped the moronic parking that abounds, the roads would be clearer, giving faster responses and greater access to patients

A bit like land mines, unseen, but they would only shred motons tyres, +1 (+4?)
Should the booby-trapped kerbs be marked or not?
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Cunobelin
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby Cunobelin » 15 Mar 2018, 6:19am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
cyclemad wrote:just seen the original post...what a stupid ''invention''

Supposed a person is running along at night in lightweight thin soled training shoes....steps on device.....OUCH !!!!!!

Emergency vehicles won't like it either


waste of time and effort.



As the device is designed to be safe for legitimate users of the pavement, this is a little "speculative", and ironically the risk to the disabled and visually impaired is far less of a threat than the illegal, antisocial and selfishly parked vehicles it would prevent

Emergency vehicles are the same, if the device stopped the moronic parking that abounds, the roads would be clearer, giving faster responses and greater access to patients

A bit like land mines, unseen, but they would only shred motons tyres, +1 (+4?)
Should the booby-trapped kerbs be marked or not?


Would it make a difference, these are people who already believe they are above the law

Reminds me of the bleating by some about the "killer bollards in Manchester

This video starts with the big, well lit and blazingly obvious warning sign the motorists are ignoring






There was also much bleating about the deliberate damage to the vehicles of "innocent" motorists and demands for their removal.

They are still there, and as yet (to my knowledge) there has not been a single case where the Council has had to pay for the damage these muppets inflicted upon themselves

pwa
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby pwa » 15 Mar 2018, 7:44am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
cyclemad wrote:just seen the original post...what a stupid ''invention''

Supposed a person is running along at night in lightweight thin soled training shoes....steps on device.....OUCH !!!!!!

Emergency vehicles won't like it either


waste of time and effort.



As the device is designed to be safe for legitimate users of the pavement, this is a little "speculative", and ironically the risk to the disabled and visually impaired is far less of a threat than the illegal, antisocial and selfishly parked vehicles it would prevent

Emergency vehicles are the same, if the device stopped the moronic parking that abounds, the roads would be clearer, giving faster responses and greater access to patients

A bit like land mines, unseen, but they would only shred motons tyres, +1 (+4?)
Should the booby-trapped kerbs be marked or not?


One problem with land mines is the unintended victims, those who just happen to get caught out by a crude device that can't really distinguish between intended victims and non-intended victims. I don't know why we are discussing this device because it ain't gonna happen on any public highway.

JohnW
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby JohnW » 15 Mar 2018, 11:33am

AlaninWales wrote:..................Pedestrians, prams and buggies are too light to activate the device. someone in thin-soled shoes could stamp on one all day and be unaffected.

Emergency vehicles should be in the road. Cars causing an obstruction to emergency vehicles on the road simply need removing.


Two questions there though Alan.

One is that the technology works, and the safety measures work - and whether they'll be maintained to be always in working condition.

The other is whether cars causing an obstruction to emergency vehicles will actually be removed. It won't happen - ask a pavement parking motorist to consider others? - never. Find any one in authority with the will and authority to do it? - never. In a perfect world there'd be someone on site quickly to sort the situation out - but it's not a perfect world - if it was, there'd be no cars/vans on the footpath in the first place.

thirdcrank
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Mar 2018, 11:48am

Something I find intriguing about increased pavement parking is the concurrent trend towards easily-damaged alloy wheels and low-profile tyres. Even some 4x4's have these. Honest John or somebody similar tells me you can buy (Pirelli?) tyres with a sort of rib protruding from the sidewalls to protect rims from kerb damage.

AlaninWales
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby AlaninWales » 15 Mar 2018, 11:55am

JohnW wrote:
AlaninWales wrote:..................Pedestrians, prams and buggies are too light to activate the device. someone in thin-soled shoes could stamp on one all day and be unaffected.

Emergency vehicles should be in the road. Cars causing an obstruction to emergency vehicles on the road simply need removing.


Two questions there though Alan.

One is that the technology works, and the safety measures work - and whether they'll be maintained to be always in working condition.

I would suggest that you direct that question to the inventor, one "Yannick Read, 47, of the Environmental Transport Association" possibly via the ETA, rather than to me. My role was in placing the link to the report in this forum for discussion as I thought it would be of interest to denizens of this hole. I am not responsible for its claimed limits of operation. Some have questioned whether the report is correct: Fair enough, but expecting anyone on this forum to be responsible for the adequacy of testing is a bit odd.
JohnW wrote:The other is whether cars causing an obstruction to emergency vehicles will actually be removed. It won't happen - ask a pavement parking motorist to consider others? - never. Find any one in authority with the will and authority to do it? - never. In a perfect world there'd be someone on site quickly to sort the situation out - but it's not a perfect world - if it was, there'd be no cars/vans on the footpath in the first place.

Expecting any solution to be used perfectly is naive. This is apparently an alternative to bollards, which may be useful in some situations. Obviously if a council placed these along all pavement edges everywhere, people would not be able to access their own properties across the pavement (currently legal). However if the specifications are as reported, I can see a use for these in some circumstances - such as to defend flexible wands for example (i.e. place them under the wands so that vehicles driving into them get punctured). I would never see them as a magic bullet, simply one more tool. Of course we could always just give up and allow motorists to park anywhere, but IMO there is too much of that already. However "it won't happen" is over stating the case as cars do get removed for obstruction; I have even witnessed this myself and know it isn't just a you-tube stunt.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby Cyril Haearn » 15 Mar 2018, 6:11pm

It might indeed be an April 'joke', the ETA is a queer organisation, I wanted to join it to get breakdown insurance but it would not cover 'old' vehicles (10 years?) :?

Should the treated kerbs be marked or not?
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JohnW
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby JohnW » 15 Mar 2018, 6:31pm

AlaninWales wrote:....................Of course we could always just give up and allow motorists to park anywhere.................


Already happened - not always legally of course, but the only people who bother are the victims/potential victims, and what do they matter?

broadway
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby broadway » 15 Mar 2018, 7:23pm

"Police are warning drivers their cars will be ticketed and removed if they block pavements to pram pushers and other pedestrians.

Officers in Oldham say those on foot are being forced into a busy road near Greenfield Station and put a warning on Facebook to remind drivers of the consequences."

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... t-14415141

JohnW
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby JohnW » 15 Mar 2018, 7:42pm

broadway wrote:"Police are warning drivers their cars will be ticketed and removed if they block pavements to pram pushers and other pedestrians.

Officers in Oldham say those on foot are being forced into a busy road near Greenfield Station and put a warning on Facebook to remind drivers of the consequences."

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... t-14415141

I don't live in/near Greenfield, but I know it, and I know that the problems referred to are as described.

I have no confidence that any motorist will ever suffer any consequences - if it happens, please let us know.

thirdcrank
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Mar 2018, 9:26pm

The kerb is a line in the sand. Once it's decided that a bit of obstruction of the footway is OK, it's inevitably going to be very difficult to enforce - hence the media releases and threats of action. One obvious point to me is that one of the pictures illustrating the linked MEN article shows an officer doing the test with the smallest type of buggy, perhaps because that's the easiest to transport in a car ready for a test. What about anybody pushing a bigger one eg for two children side-by-side? I can imagine wheelchair users and those with eyesight problems being really unhappy, and understandably so. If and when tickets are issued, I fancy most will pay up and probably feel miffed that they were picked on.

The real test is what happens when somebody decides to contest a ticket and go to court. Only guessing, but I suspect that's when the CPS raise the white flag.

Perhaps there are motoring forums where they discuss this and link to assurances from government ministers that it's not intended that careful drivers should be punished and that chief officers are aware that they should exercise discretion ............................

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RickH
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby RickH » 15 Mar 2018, 9:55pm

thirdcrank wrote:The kerb is a line in the sand...

I can imagine wheelchair users and those with eyesight problems being really unhappy, and understandably so.

Guide Dogs have an ongoing campaign to get a change in the law on pavement parking (link)

Guide Dogs wrote:A standardised law across the country would make it clear that pavement parking should be the exception, not the norm for motorists, and give local authorities real power to properly tackle this problem. We want a clear law where drivers cannot park on the pavement unless in a specifically designated area, in line with Greater London.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby Cyril Haearn » 16 Mar 2018, 6:07am

RickH wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:The kerb is a line in the sand...

I can imagine wheelchair users and those with eyesight problems being really unhappy, and understandably so.

Guide Dogs have an ongoing campaign to get a change in the law on pavement parking (link)

Guide Dogs wrote:A standardised law across the country would make it clear that pavement parking should be the exception, not the norm for motorists, and give local authorities real power to properly tackle this problem. We want a clear law where drivers cannot park on the pavement..
...

Cannae or may not? CUK should cooperate with Guide Dogs, we have similar interests
Many years ago I read that GD had too much money, how was that resolved?
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JohnW
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Re: Pavement Parking - a device to combat it...

Postby JohnW » 16 Mar 2018, 2:29pm

thirdcrank wrote:.................Only guessing, but I suspect that's when the CPS raise the white flag....................
............................

Of course TC - they're motorists themselves, aren't they?