Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
reohn2
Posts: 45178
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by reohn2 »

mercalia wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Addiction is an illness. You can't attribute idiot or buffoon status to someone affected deeply by addiction IMHO. Rational thought isn't possible in the same way a sober individual capable of.

Indeed. I thought society had moved on generally in its understanding, but there may be individuals who have rather been left behind.


confused thinking
it is a self inflicted illness at best, the idiocy pertains to driving a car when you know you are that way? its not as if he is poor as some one has already said, he could afford a taxi or a driver ( probably tax deductable?) A responsible person knowing his/her weakness would have arranged a taxi before going out. He is like that lorry driver in Scotland who drove his lorry when he knew he had blackouts and killed some pedestrians. no sympathy at all for him. As for being so drunk that he wasnt capable of rational thought - well he managed to earn a nice living doing his tv job so couldnt be that far gone? Just a selfish irresponsible celeb who thinks he is above it all; I remember the case a little while ago, when Reese Witherspoon the actress was pulled over for speeding (in the USA), I think it was - her first words to the cop were angrilly "dont you know who I am?" as if that meant she was better than the rest of humanity and special rules applied to her.


From the outside looking in,addiction is a hard situation to assess,because unless you've been an addict you can't see it from the inside looking out possibly because there is no 'out' for the addict.
Take the case of Anorexia,the simple solution to the problem is to eat,but if food is seen by the addict as the enemy of a desire to be a perfect(though impossible to attain)body shape,how do you break that negative psychological belief?
Alcohol can be similar,the vast majority of people can walk into or drive to a pub have one drink or are able to say "not for me I'm driving" and drink coke but the addict can't,due to a psychological problem and with all the best intentions in the world not to,will end up drunk and then drive.
I knew a woman who lived in the same avenue as my eldest daughter,I knew her parents too,she was a very good horserider destined for high things in showjumping until in her mid twenties she hit the bottle.
Nothing would stop her getting legless and nothing short of physical restraint stopped her from getting behind the wheel until she lost her licence and her husband sold her car.
She would then cycle,completely intoxicated to the Coop 3/4 of a mile away for more drink and has on more than one occassion needed my daughter or other neighbours to pick her up of the floor in the street,her habit was out of control.
She was 37 when she died.
It's not a fame thing it's an illness.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
mercalia
Posts: 14630
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by mercalia »

WELL I am not alone in my views -

Holly Willoughby and Philip Schofield addressed the issue
"The overwhelming feeling has to be that no matter who you are, no matter what you do, if you get into a car having had a drink, the responsibility is entirely yours."

"Piers Morgan also spoke about the situation on Good Morning Britain., saying: "Dec's collateral damage. Dec's done nothing wrong. Ant is in control of his own behaviour and is making bad choices."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-43469574

seems like atleast 3 others with out of date views
reohn2
Posts: 45178
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by reohn2 »

mercalia wrote:WELL I am not alone in my views -

Holly Willoughby and Philip Schofield addressed the issue
"The overwhelming feeling has to be that no matter who you are, no matter what you do, if you get into a car having had a drink, the responsibility is entirely yours."

"Piers Morgan also spoke about the situation on Good Morning Britain., saying: "Dec's collateral damage. Dec's done nothing wrong. Ant is in control of his own behaviour and is making bad choices."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-43469574

seems like atleast 3 others with out of date views

You seem to be suffering the illusion that I think he's not to blaim for the crimes he's commited.
I'm not.
I'm giving a reason for it.
If you care to read my previous posts you'll see I've said he deserves all what he gets under the law.
That does not disredit the fact that he has an illness,and that after his driving ban,cured or not of that illness,will be allowed to drive again without check of a cure.
I'll repeat,alcoholism and drug misused is an illness!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
mercalia
Posts: 14630
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by mercalia »

well I was commenting more on Bonefishblues who seemed to be downplaying things.
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by horizon »

661-Pete wrote:
horizon wrote:3. Driving despite adverse conditions - snow and ice (see all news media)
That last is not actually illegal. Some people have no option but to venture out whatever the weather (e.g. doctors and nurses).



Many people say they had no choice - try saying that to the relatives of the bereaved. Until it is illegal (and it should be), people will try it on, with tragic consequences.

It's all a matter of whether you can handle it.


That's what they used to say about alcohol.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9509
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by Tangled Metal »

It seems a bit like there's a downplaying of the role addiction takes and potentially a downplaying of the addict's culpability for driving over the limit. The truth is addiction is part of why a clever man has driven while over the limit for alcohol. It does not stop him being culpable for the action. It does explain it and mitigate it somewhat IMHO. You can't dismiss addiction and you can't dismiss his offence.

Personally I hope they throw the book at him but suspend any jail time (if that's a possibility) subject to treatment reports. He needs help and punishment IMHO. I think that previous sentence is the same as R2's view (correct me if I'm wrong). I hope Mercalia can accept that he needs both not just one. Punishment without help won't work out that well.
Cyril Haearn
Posts: 15215
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Addicts need help but they need to be controlled more, if they harm themselves that is one thing, if they endanger others that is quite another
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
User avatar
Spinners
Posts: 1678
Joined: 6 Dec 2008, 6:58pm
Location: Port Talbot

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by Spinners »

On the plus side, if Dec goes solo at least we'll know which one is which :wink:
Cycling UK Life Member
PBP Ancien (2007)
reohn2
Posts: 45178
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by reohn2 »

Tangled Metal wrote:It seems a bit like there's a downplaying of the role addiction takes and potentially a downplaying of the addict's culpability for driving over the limit. The truth is addiction is part of why a clever man has driven while over the limit for alcohol. It does not stop him being culpable for the action. It does explain it and mitigate it somewhat IMHO. You can't dismiss addiction and you can't dismiss his offence.

Personally I hope they throw the book at him but suspend any jail time (if that's a possibility) subject to treatment reports. He needs help and punishment IMHO. I think that previous sentence is the same as R2's view (correct me if I'm wrong). I hope Mercalia can accept that he needs both not just one. Punishment without help won't work out that well.

I think we're of the same opinion,this man needs punishing severely for his illegal driving and the results of it.
However he also needs help kick his addiction,he's in a financial position where the cost of any help he needs won't be a buden on his finances,but what of people who can't afford such services?
Would it be unreasonable to expect the alcohol companies fund such clincs and services?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
reohn2
Posts: 45178
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by reohn2 »

mercalia wrote:well I was commenting more on Bonefishblues who seemed to be downplaying things.

I suspect Boney and myself are of the same mind on the issue,but I'll let him clarify that.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11034
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by Bonefishblues »

reohn2 wrote:
mercalia wrote:well I was commenting more on Bonefishblues who seemed to be downplaying things.

I suspect Boney and myself are of the same mind on the issue,but I'll let him clarify that.

Indeed.

Having lost a close relative to this disease aged in his 30s, a delightful young man in every way, with this one awful, awful weakness, and having spent some time working for a leading provider of addiction services across the whole spectrum, and who I suspect treated Mr McP does give one a certain perspective which is less willing to cite popular media figures in support of their more "soundbite-oriented" views.

I would encourage people to go and seek some more objective information and educate themselves.

None of this, nor my previous contributions is intended to absolve people of responsibility for their actions, by the way.
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9509
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by Tangled Metal »

reohn2 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:It seems a bit like there's a downplaying of the role addiction takes and potentially a downplaying of the addict's culpability for driving over the limit. The truth is addiction is part of why a clever man has driven while over the limit for alcohol. It does not stop him being culpable for the action. It does explain it and mitigate it somewhat IMHO. You can't dismiss addiction and you can't dismiss his offence.

Personally I hope they throw the book at him but suspend any jail time (if that's a possibility) subject to treatment reports. He needs help and punishment IMHO. I think that previous sentence is the same as R2's view (correct me if I'm wrong). I hope Mercalia can accept that he needs both not just one. Punishment without help won't work out that well.

I think we're of the same opinion,this man needs punishing severely for his illegal driving and the results of it.
However he also needs help kick his addiction,he's in a financial position where the cost of any help he needs won't be a buden on his finances,but what of people who can't afford such services?
Would it be unreasonable to expect the alcohol companies fund such clincs and services?

In some ways the addicts pay through the excise duty on alcohol. It's just that the money goes anywhere but to those who contribute to that particular tax.

BTW there's an established state funded drug rehab system. I know a guy who's been on it a few times. Kicked heroin a few times but his issue is avoidance of the drug culture when clean. He can't afford to move away from the area where all his family and friends are in the drug scene. He's not very bright and gets led astray. He does however have the desire and ability to get clean. There's less support to stay clean though.

Imagine your from the worst areas of a town where drugs are through the whole community. You get clean but you're living in state housing which is in the worst areas. Council won't move you into a better area or can't. How can you leave the drugs behind? You get clean and you're back into it all again.

I'm not sure that applies to the Ant&Dec guy. BTW which one has the problem? I kind of only see them as one entity.
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9509
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by Tangled Metal »

Boney - what are your views about after rehab? I'm thinking of the poorer sections of society who get clean but have to live in the same drug riddled community they got hooked in. How can we manage that aspect of addiction?

A very difficult answer to find and if you have one I'll be amazed.
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by pete75 »

This'd sort him out.....

Image
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11034
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Ant McPartlin arrested over drink-driving collision

Post by Bonefishblues »

Tangled Metal wrote:Boney - what are your views about after rehab? I'm thinking of the poorer sections of society who get clean but have to live in the same drug riddled community they got hooked in. How can we manage that aspect of addiction?

A very difficult answer to find and if you have one I'll be amazed.

I don't bar the lame observation that until society addresses these "sink estates"/areas and provides broad spectrum help to lift them out of the cycle of unemployment and dependency (on the State, that is, pun not intended), then it would be a very rare individual who magaged to free themselves from the cycle described.
Last edited by Bonefishblues on 21 Mar 2018, 9:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply