Second-greatest invention of all time? The Symphony Orchestra!

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profpointy
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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby profpointy » 27 Mar 2018, 1:12am

brynpoeth wrote:The Symphony Orchestra!

100 people play for an hour or more to an exact plan, how complicated is that? But it is made of lots of simple actions that combine to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts, +101

Elgar, Sibelius, Beethoven, Bach, Haendel, Mozart, Britten, Schubert, Schumann, Wagner..
Could there be any reason why most of them seem to be German? :?


When you say "most of them are German" I only make it 50% of your list above. A different list could be a lower ratio

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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby mercalia » 27 Mar 2018, 2:35am

pete75 wrote:
661-Pete wrote:
mercalia wrote:so thats why there is so much of his sounds-the-same music then, a new piece each week? not a fan
Funny you should say that - exactly my beef about 1950s, and later, rock, pop, etc. etc.


Sounds like you both have the same problem - neither of you is actually listening to the music.


:roll:

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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby Tangled Metal » 27 Mar 2018, 8:40am

If you don't like a particular type of music then don't listen to it. Oh! You're already doing it.

I'm with Pete75 I don't you're listening to the modern stuff, not really. Closed ears and mind about that. I kind of had the same thought about certain musics my partner listens to. She put some on for our lad and there's actually more than a bit of talent gone into it. I still didn't like it but it had talent behind it.

I think that's the thing, there's talent behind all decent music but it needs listening to if you want to appreciate it.

Personally I don't get classical music or a lot of jazz. Classical music is just a load of notes from a bunch of old fashioned instruments. I mean oboe, clarinet, French horn, violin and viola. Mind you, put a violin into the hands of a talented Irish man or southern American and the violin into their body and you've got a decent fiddle player! Add in a banjo and you've got a party! :wink:

profpointy
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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby profpointy » 27 Mar 2018, 9:13am

brynpoeth wrote:The Symphony Orchestra!

100 people play for an hour or more to an exact plan, how complicated is that? But it is made of lots of simple actions that combine to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts, +101

Elgar, Sibelius, Beethoven, Bach, Haendel, Mozart, Britten, Schubert, Schumann, Wagner..
Could there be any reason why most of them seem to be German? :?


"most of them seem to be German"
I make it only 50% of the your German heavy list, so "most" is a bit of a stretch surely

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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby pwa » 27 Mar 2018, 9:26am

In reality several different inventions, but lumped together, the video screen /TV. From the cathode ray TVs to smartphone screens, images of things far beyond our direct experience have changed our view of the universe.

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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby Vorpal » 27 Mar 2018, 11:36am

brynpoeth wrote:What, you play an instrument too?

I find conductors interesting, they may not be able to play an instrument, or not all of them, but they direct those who can

Visited an exhibition of Dirigierstaebe, conductor's batons a while ago


I play the 'cello. It's my main hobby when the weather is bad ;)

Most conductors play an instrument at some level. The vast majority started out playing something.


I like all sorts of music, medieval, baroque, classical, modern, rock, prog rock, blues, blue grass, heavy metal, etc. I'm not too keen on country western as a genre, though I occasionally come across country songs that I like.

I guess the music that I own is mostly made of Classical and Romantic, blues, folk, folk-rock, and rock, with a smattering grunge, metal, prog rock, medieval, Renaissance, and Baroque.

My favourite compser is Grieg.

Of course, everyone has different taste about such things. I don't think it matters much if someone likes or doesn't like a particular type of music. There will always be people who appreciate it at some level, even some of the weird minimalist things. But we should respect others' taste and opinions. :)
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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby Audax67 » 27 Mar 2018, 3:02pm

mercalia wrote:so what is first greatest invention of all time?
Democracy.


Except when it's pronounced demacracy, closely followed by computer-aided gerrymandering.

And no matter how it's pronounced, the corruption it engenders. But as the Man said, "corruption you will always have with you...".

First-greatest invention? Probably language, without which we wouldn't have lies - oh, sorry, politics.
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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby 661-Pete » 27 Mar 2018, 3:09pm

I suppose that my 'likes' are perhaps more restrictive than Vorpal's - inasmuch as they stop at round about her fourth example.

Never mind. Just shows how different people are. :)

It was suggested, up thread, that I don't actually listen to some music. I dispute that. I certainly listen - for a while. Sometimes I turn off.

Sometimes I come across a work in one of my 'like' genres, which is so complex, such difficult listening, that I turn off at first. I listen to it again - and learn a little more. After several hearings, it becomes that much more familiar. Then, if I realise how much I like it, I start to get that 'hairs prickling on my neck' sensation, that tells me this music is really 'getting to me'.

Try this for size. If it's not a genre you like, you won't stay long. If you like this sort of thing but you don't know the work, you'll probably get into difficulties - certainly around the monumental cadenza, which starts at around 5:55 and reaches its climax around 9:50. In fact, I guess some will have stopped the playback long before then. If you persist, and then replay it and try again to understand - congrats! For me, it's become one of those 'hair-prickling' experiences and I now listen intently to the end. Sadly, I've not yet been to a live performance - maybe one day!

Whether anyone can persuade me to do the same with one of my 'dislike' genres - I don't know. But I doubt it.
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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby rjb » 27 Mar 2018, 3:24pm

Vorpal wrote:
I play the 'cello. It's my main hobby when the weather is bad ;)

Most conductors play an instrument at some level. The vast majority started out playing something.


I like all sorts of music, medieval, baroque, classical, modern, rock, prog rock, blues, blue grass, heavy metal, etc. I'm not too keen on country western as a genre, though I occasionally come across country songs that I like.

I guess the music that I own is mostly made of Classical and Romantic, blues, folk, folk-rock, and rock, with a smattering grunge, metal, prog rock, medieval, Renaissance, and Baroque.

My favourite compser is Grieg.

Of course, everyone has different taste about such things. I don't think it matters much if someone likes or doesn't like a particular type of music. There will always be people who appreciate it at some level, even some of the weird minimalist things. But we should respect others' taste and opinions. :)


I scrape away on the violin, badly - probably similar level to Russell Crowe in Master and Commander. :lol: Daughter is a violinist with the Bournemouth Symphony Orch.

Couple more players could give us a quartet :lol:

My favorite piece is Betthovens Eroica, which IIRC was voted the best piece of all time.
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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby mercalia » 27 Mar 2018, 3:56pm

rjb wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
I play the 'cello. It's my main hobby when the weather is bad ;)

Most conductors play an instrument at some level. The vast majority started out playing something.


I like all sorts of music, medieval, baroque, classical, modern, rock, prog rock, blues, blue grass, heavy metal, etc. I'm not too keen on country western as a genre, though I occasionally come across country songs that I like.

I guess the music that I own is mostly made of Classical and Romantic, blues, folk, folk-rock, and rock, with a smattering grunge, metal, prog rock, medieval, Renaissance, and Baroque.

My favourite compser is Grieg.

Of course, everyone has different taste about such things. I don't think it matters much if someone likes or doesn't like a particular type of music. There will always be people who appreciate it at some level, even some of the weird minimalist things. But we should respect others' taste and opinions. :)


I scrape away on the violin, badly - probably similar level to Russell Crowe in Master and Commander. :lol: Daughter is a violinist with the Bournemouth Symphony Orch.

Couple more players could give us a quartet :lol:

My favorite piece is Betthovens Eroica, which IIRC was voted the best piece of all time.


you mean "Erotica" dont you? I wonder how many bought the cd thinking it would be a sordid symphony

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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby 661-Pete » 27 Mar 2018, 4:01pm

mercalia wrote:you mean "Erotica" dont you? I wonder how many bought the cd thinking it would be a sordid symphony
Probably about as many as bought the "Spice Girls" thinking it'd be a set of recipes for making curry...
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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby Tangled Metal » 27 Mar 2018, 4:16pm

My cousin and IIRC my uncle used to play cello for Bournemouth (but not at the same time). A mate played for Liverpool professionally (second violin IIRC). Lost contact years ago. She used to go on tours with them around the world.

Since Bournemouth my uncle used to mess around with Newcastle orchestra I think and got into a small string group that sprung up out of Newcastle.

An auntie and gran were pianists but mostly taught it. Not as much opportunity for pianists in orchestras I think. Although. My auntie had the piano size one down from a full orchestra grand. Big thing that needed specialist removal team that only moved pianos. The house also had to fit around it so hard to find houses to fit their needs.

My gran was simply the best piano teacher you could find. As a kid who had no interest in my forced piano lessons I used to look forward to her free lessons when we stayed with them. Didn't admit to liking them and put up a lot of resistance each time. I guess if your teacher is a fat, horrible, chain smoking bloke with no skills or interest with encouraging kids that's what you get.

My dad's side is where the musical talent stayed. He had a perfect ear just never pursued music. My gran was trained at the best music college (Royal school of music IIRC). My aunt got into the second best. My uncle went into science but kept his musical interests but my dad lost his musical interests. Trumpet, violin and self taught piano was as far as he got.

Me? Recorder and trumpet at school (not for long) and piano after school once a week. Gave up ASAP. I'm happy challenging my dad to play a tune I name from memory when he's in the mood for a challenge. If he knows the tune he works it out by ear. Trouble is he is a jazz fan. Doesn't know much of what I used to know. I think the 60s passed him by of it's not jazz!

Music wise I think blues has so much to offer but I can't really enjoy classical. Too dull! No excitement or passion or energy or emotion to it IMHO. Sounds daft the emotion / passion bit but I don't hear it when it's there.

Music has to grab your emotions to appeal IMHO. If one genre doesn't connect with you then you won't like it. I can and do appreciate the skill and creativity in classical. Whilst I don't like it I don't feel the need to denigrate it because I can appreciate there's a lot of creativity and skill involved in classical. I see there's the same in all types of music genres but I like what I like. That is so wide and varied as to not be worth listing here..
What have I seen live? Not a lot but I still prefer listening to the music seeing the musician doesn't add much to me.

One of my favourite music presentations on TV was a Xmas folk gig in an old church. They had the likes of echobelly and other folk / folk rock playing. They also played together. So you had singers from one mixing with musicians from about 3 other bands all together.

It was a right old knees up! The front of the audience area had space for ppl to get up and dance. You had ppl dressed up in wild, victorian/steam punk type clothing. Bands were dancing to other bands playing and it had the feel of echobelly (as kind of hosts) throwing a giant party for their mates. Xmas eve out was on and it really made me ready for Xmas.

It is that lifting up of your spirit or changing of your mood that good music does to you that I like. You're driving along half listening to the radio background and suddenly the music changes your mood. Hair on b the neck prickles or a grin appears. It's all positive whatever the genre.

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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby brynpoeth » 27 Mar 2018, 5:35pm

Beethoven is the greatest I think, if there has to be a greatest
Anyone disagree?

The greatest invention of all time is the main subject of these fora, surely we all agree about that! :D
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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby rjb » 28 Mar 2018, 5:30pm

No it must be Handle after all he invented the bar. :lol:
or disraeli the inventor of gears. - Who!
or Tubular bells but last i heard he had a visit from the fairy. :roll:
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Re: Second-greatest invention of all time?

Postby brynpoeth » 28 Mar 2018, 6:26pm

rjb wrote:No it must be Handle after all he invented the bar. :lol:
or disraeli the inventor of gears. - Who!
or Tubular bells but last i heard he had a visit from the fairy. :roll:

+1, more puns please, do you know how I can learn some by heart? They occur to me hours or days later
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