Hither Green 'burglar' stabbing: Man, 78, arrested

[mercalia]

and what do you think of this from the metro local news paper

if that is my fence I would tear them down pronto

and one paper says he is getting death threats

[661-Pete]

if that is my fence I would tear them down pronto

...and that appears to be precisely what has happened.

Not something I would do. A tribute is a tribute; however villainous this guy appears to have been, he still had relatives to mourn him.

But what is this 'flower power' craze that has built up mostly over the past 20 years or so (it all started with Princess Diana, so I think)? Is it really the proper way to show respect to the departed: bunches of cut flowers laid at the scene, usually still in their plastic wrapping?

I am lucky never to have had to lay flowers at the roadside for a friend or relative. On one occasion - when we took part in the March for Europe in March last year - we took along flowers to lay in Parliament Square. You will recall, there was a terrorist attack a few days earlier, in which several people were killed including an unarmed police officer standing in front of the Houses of Parliament. Many of the other marchers were carrying flowers too...

[Flinders]

The flowers are dead in a coupe of days,and go slimy and stink after that. It must be a disgusting job to clear them up, and difficult to know when to do it to avoid the 'professionally offended' brigade.
I have no idea why people do it, bar very close relatives and friends who I suppose may feel some need to mark the place. When one of my own relatives was killed in an RTA I experienced no need to dump dying flowers at the site.

I recall after the Diana thing hearing a young woman saying that one of her 'friends' (my inverted commas), who did not know Diana at all, went and laid flowers at the palace gates. That same 'friend' had not given flowers, or expressed any grief, when the young woman's own mother had died.
In cases like Diana, I think it's mostly just pathetic people who want the excitement of being involved with big events. A sort of vicarious playing at grief, and a way of drawing attention to themselves. I find that sort of attitude repellent. A donation to a charity in the dead person's memory would at least do some good, and I'd have thought in Diana's case there were plenty of charities she supported who she herself would have preferred the money for the flowers to go to.

[Tangled Metal]

Why put it outside the house he burgled rather than where he was found dead or on his way? Tributes usually go where the nifty) body was found I thought. Like at car crash locations (pet hate of mine, put something to grab drivers' attention right where it's dangerous).

By what I've read the locals seem a bit nervous about all this. Stories of black car driving around looking at house. Tributes right opposite the house where the decreased miscreant burgled with violence. The house is now boarded up and the old man and family haven't been home since the night of the burglary. Neighbours feeling intimidated by the tributes. It's all wrong.

If the guy did do something wrong that was beyond self defence then why was he released then taken off police bail requirements? He's looking more and more like the victim without guilt.

Some inflammatory comments in news sites I think too. The dead burglar is described as of the traveller community. Kind of a phrase aimed at creating a negative view of him and his relatives.

[pwa]

The family of the dead man should be feeling ashamed of him and how he lived. Preying on old people! They have a right to grieve, but they should do it somewhere else and not inflict any more harm on this neighbourhood.

[mercalia]

Why put it outside the house he burgled rather than where he was found dead or on his way? Tributes usually go where the nifty) body was found I thought. Like at car crash locations (pet hate of mine, put something to grab drivers' attention right where it's dangerous).

By what I've read the locals seem a bit nervous about all this. Stories of black car driving around looking at house. Tributes right opposite the house where the decreased miscreant burgled with violence. The house is now boarded up and the old man and family haven't been home since the night of the burglary. Neighbours feeling intimidated by the tributes. It's all wrong.

If the guy did do something wrong that was beyond self defence then why was he released then taken off police bail requirements? He's looking more and more like the victim without guilt.

Some inflammatory comments in news sites I think too. The dead burglar is described as of the traveller community. Kind of a phrase aimed at creating a negative view of him and his relatives.

well I cant see ones view of him could be any more negative - he was a professional burglar who targeted old people, as for his relatives they dont have 2 brain cells between them doing what they are doing? if I found out that was my partner I would be so ashamed want to hide, shows a callousness that probably explains where the burlgar was coming from. I do feel sorry for the kids shouldnt be put thru that

[thirdcrank]

The deceased has left people bereaved who are entitled to express their feelings about their loss.

Unfortunately, the fact of the householder being arrested on suspicion of murder and detained for so long can only increase their feeling that the deceased was the victim of crime, while leaving members of the public of the "no smoke without fire" school of thought to assume that there's more to this than is being published. One effect of the householder being arrested on suspicion of murder has inevitably been to increase the media interest and other publicity, both because murder is, in itself, a serious matter and because the police action seems so inappropriate.

The fact of the householder being on social media with a pint of stout in each hand and on another with a shotgun hasn't helped him to avoid publicity.

I fear his happiness in old age has been taken away: awoken by intruders in his own house during the night; involved in a struggle which not of his choice; arrested on suspicion of the most serious offence in our law; and now forced to hide for his own safety.

When Cressida Dick was recently asked whether the Metropolitan Police Service was becoming overwhelmed, she replied along the lines that the police need the support of the public. Of course they do. I'm at a loss to know how the way this case has been handled fosters that support.

I've given some more thought to the suggestion of which Dr Pangloss might have been proud, that being immediately arrested and detained was somehow in the interests of the householder here. The only benefit I can see is that the legal representation at the police station would be free. There are ways round that.

Setting aside the risk of any revenge attacks etc., the next public interest event may well be any legal action by the householder, although, as I've posted before, the police's legal bods may well decide not to waste public money fighting the case. One longer-term effect of losing in court, would be that stronger guidelines on when an arrrest is necessary would be exploited by worse people than this pensioner.

[Cunobelin]

IT is difficult to see through both sides, or the actual truth

If to be believed, then some of the the reported "tributes" did need to be removed, they were more about intimidation than showing respect or grief

There is also the attributed statement to the Travellers :

“They won’t get over the death of one of their own and they won’t rest until they get their revenge.

“And when I say revenge, they will go armed with whatever they’ve got — guns, knives. There’s nothing they won’t do to get their own back on this pensioner.”

I would have no problem with a respectful and dignified shrine, but this is neither

[mercalia]

IT is difficult to see through both sides, or the actual truth

If to be believed, then some of the the reported "tributes" did need to be removed, they were more about intimidation than showing respect or grief

There is also the attributed statement to the Travellers :

“They won’t get over the death of one of their own and they won’t rest until they get their revenge.

“And when I say revenge, they will go armed with whatever they’ve got — guns, knives. There’s nothing they won’t do to get their own back on this pensioner.”

I would have no problem with a respectful and dignified shrine, but this is neither

do you know where the quote came from? rather surprised as in itse self is an offence?

[Cunobelin]

IT is difficult to see through both sides, or the actual truth

If to be believed, then some of the the reported "tributes" did need to be removed, they were more about intimidation than showing respect or grief

There is also the attributed statement to the Travellers :

“They won’t get over the death of one of their own and they won’t rest until they get their revenge.

“And when I say revenge, they will go armed with whatever they’ve got — guns, knives. There’s nothing they won’t do to get their own back on this pensioner.”

I would have no problem with a respectful and dignified shrine, but this is neither

do you know where the quote came from? rather surprised as in itse self is an offence?

I was very careful in my words.

Most of the papers are running this quote and all of them are quoting "a member of the travelling community", "pals of the thug", "family of the burglar" (or variations) as the source

Anther variation on the story is:

A close family friend said: "Even though he [Henry] broke into the pensioner’s house armed with a screwdriver [there is] nothing that they [family] won’t do to get their own back."

Speaking to MailOnline, he said: "This poor man and his wife won’t be safe going back into their own home. Anything could happen.

"They [Henry’s family] won’t get over a death of one of their own and they won’t rest until they get their revenge against anyone who takes a cherished loved one.

"And when I say revenge, I mean they’ll go armed with whatever they’ve got – guns, knives, anything that they can lay their hands on."

I used attributed as it could not be proven as to a single source and there is no "proof" as to which of the various versions is true

[mercalia]

well we would hope the police are following this up and identifying the individuals and arresting them?

[pwa]

This is a nightmare for the police. It has the potential to turn into a battle between travellers and house dwellers with anger on both sides. The police need to get to grips with this now, and step one has to be persuading the friends and family of the dead man to put their tributes in a place where they are not seen as a provocation.

[hondated]

But what is this 'flower power' craze that has built up mostly over the past 20 years or so (it all started with Princess Diana, so I think)? Is it really the proper way to show respect to the departed: bunches of cut flowers laid at the scene, usually still in their plastic wrapping?

Having lost a young sister in a car crash some 45 years ago now I feel I can comment with some validity. It was not the " fashion " in those days to leave floral tributes at the scene of a death and in my opinion rightly so has the place for them is in the grave yard not on a public street.

[mercalia]

But what is this 'flower power' craze that has built up mostly over the past 20 years or so (it all started with Princess Diana, so I think)? Is it really the proper way to show respect to the departed: bunches of cut flowers laid at the scene, usually still in their plastic wrapping?

Having lost a young sister in a car crash some 45 years ago now I feel I can comment with some validity. It was not the " fashion " in those days to leave floral tributes at the scene of a death and in my opinion rightly so has the place for them is in the grave yard not on a public street.

yes cycling around London I have seen many of the seemingly abandoned flowers attached to lamp posts of fatal accidents makes me sad, not the right way to do things

[Tangled Metal]

Road traffic accidents that happen on dangerous roads or sections of roads and then someone puts flowers there? Great idea! Another driver looks at flowers with the potential risks due to the distraction increasing the already high risks due to the road design.

I really never understood why your wish to leave tributes to your deceased relative is acceptable on dangerous sections of roads. I've often said to family and friends that I believe police should remove all tributes to road death victims by the side of the road.

Also I know of a crag that has metal plaques bolted to it commemorating jumpers who died there. Also a tree planted and regularly decorated by flowers next to a stretch of rapids on a Scottish River. I always look at things like these and think how sad but also wonder about the reason why this effort. Can't they remember people by visiting a grave or by actually thinking about the good times with them? I'm not really the emotional type to want to do this. Funeral and my memories are enough to remember decreased friends and family.

However the location of these tributes isn't where his body was found but the site of his crime which led to b his death. Do they really want to tribute him as the violent burglar? Or is it really about intimidation? If I was an emotional type and a relative of the guy I'd put a tribute where he was found. It's sad someone died so grieving should be allowed /accepted. However the other victims of this incident (the real victims) need consideration. The man and his family I mean. Can't the police relocate the tributes to try and diffuse the situation?