Hither Green 'burglar' stabbing: Man, 78, arrested

[pwa]

In an interview where she seemed to give some tips on how to avoid being detected, the Commissioner of Police for the Metropolis also said this:

Asked about events in Hither Green, where a row has broken out about floral tributes to a suspected burglar who was killed by a homeowner, the commissioner said it was "just not helpful" for her to comment on a case where "feelings are running very high".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43752643

Bearing in mind, it must have been obvious that this would be raised in the interview, "No comment" seems inadequate to me. Is there now an embargo on this or is it left to subordinates to handle the difficult stuff?

It seems also to have dropped out of the news. Which is probably a good thing. We need everyone concerned to back away and take a deep breath, and perhaps prominent people just not talking about it helps that to happen. So I think she was right. If she doesn't speak about it the story is more likely to fade, at least until the funeral.

[Cunobelin]

Don't forget the benches. In some places they're being banned because there's too many. A seaside resort was the first to do this.

The other memorial is a planted tree (some with plaque sometimes without). When I was responsible for nature reserves we were often asked if a tree could be planted and invariably the tree suggested by the family would be a copper beech - a tree that is rarely found in nature and would not suit the character of a nature reserve. Although the deceased person had some affinity with whatever reserve in question I suppose it is not surprising the family would choose the most inappropriate cultivar!

Completely OT....


We visited a turf Church in Iceland



Some of the graves have Rowan trees growing.

Apparently it used to be a tradition to plant a Rowan seed on the grave. How well the seed grew, and the size of the tree was a measure of the individual

[thirdcrank]

....
It seems also to have dropped out of the news. Which is probably a good thing. We need everyone concerned to back away and take a deep breath, and perhaps prominent people just not talking about it helps that to happen. So I think she was right. If she doesn't speak about it the story is more likely to fade, at least until the funeral.

Or not:-

Hither Green: Relatives mark dead burglar's birthday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43774803

[mercalia]

....
It seems also to have dropped out of the news. Which is probably a good thing. We need everyone concerned to back away and take a deep breath, and perhaps prominent people just not talking about it helps that to happen. So I think she was right. If she doesn't speak about it the story is more likely to fade, at least until the funeral.

Or not:-

Hither Green: Relatives mark dead burglar's birthday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43774803

you beat me to it. The pictures are so bad, the idea of celebrating some ones BIRTHDAY where he was legally killed is MACABRE to say the least. What are those women thinking of? TWISTED I think and capable of anything? About time the police put a stop to it: Breach of the Peace , to start with as the guy and his wife cant go back to their home? There should be a court order to stop them going any where near the guys house? an ASBO. In my opinion the police & local authorities are being negligent

And the BBC reporting is just as twisted
"Mr Vincent, who would have turned 38 on Sunday, is suspected of burgling Mr Osborn-Brooks's home on 4 April with Bill Jeeves."
so he went into the house to use the loo?. When I challenged the BBC on a story some time ago on another matter where I said they should have said alleged the editorial board replied that it was as obvious as a burglary is. So much for conistancy?

[thirdcrank]

I see that the (alleged) accomplice has (allegedly) been arrested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43846203

[mercalia]

I see that the (alleged) accomplice has (allegedly) been arrested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43846203

now if this was the USA he would also be charged with the murder of his accomplace, shame he wont be

[Bonefishblues]

I see that the (alleged) accomplice has (allegedly) been arrested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43846203

now if this was the USA he would also be charged with the murder of his accomplace, shame he wont be

Really? Interested to know more.

[thirdcrank]

...Really? Interested to know more.

Higher up the thread

viewtopic.php?p=1224102#p1224102

[Bonefishblues]

Obliged - I've drifted in and out of the thread, as you sense

[mercalia]

but dont we have some kind of collective responsibility legislation that was introduced mainly to deal with gangs?

[thirdcrank]

In England, there's always been an element of this, but AFAIK, it's always been based on sharing a common purpose. eg If two people set off together to go burgling, with one entering the premises and the other dogging out, then both may be convicted of burglary. Perhaps the most controversial case of this kind was that of Derek Bentley and Christopher Craig. Craig was convicted of shooting and killing PC Sidney Miles, yet his accomplice Bentley was hanged for the murder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Bentley_case

The implied malice I mentioned earlier was the principle by which if somebody committed a felony - prior to 1967 some of the more serious crimes including burglary as then defined - it was assumed that they had the necessary mens rea or guilty mind. Afaik, implied malice was scrapped in England in the 1940's. I once heard Christmas Humphreys referring to a case he had prosecuted where two burglars who had tied somebody up to facilitate the crime were hanged for murder when the victim died. They hadn't intended to kill him but the fact of it happening during the burglary was sufficient to demonstrate the "malice aforethought" necessary for murder. Whether that ever extended to the principle which is reported still to exist in the US I simply don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Humphreys

[thirdcrank]

On the broader point of accomplices, this case seems to have a lot of implications.

Man released after joint enterprise conviction quashed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43840635

[mercalia]

On the broader point of accomplices, this case seems to have a lot of implications.

Man released after joint enterprise conviction quashed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43840635

thats what I was thinking of

"Joint enterprise is used to convict defendants in gang-related cases even if they did not strike the fatal blow, but could have foreseen violent acts by their associates." if you take away the forseen element which the Supreme Court judges said the law had been wrongly interpreted, then what is left? maybe the law makers ie parliament, need to go back and make the forseen element enough?

[Bonefishblues]

So the only way that it would now apply is if there was shared intent to inflict serious harm, I guess.

[mercalia]

so the burglar is buried today. BBC radio news at 1pm, World at 1 reports. Seems like 100's attended, in Orpington. It seems like they had originally wanted to have a procession past where he was lawfully killed but it seems that sense prevailed, as there were reports that missiles were thrown at other places along the route.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43992691