Boris Johnson caught lying ? ( yet again ? )

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thirdcrank
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by thirdcrank »

To keep it topical for a cycling forum, what about the guy who extended the fixed penalty system to cycling on the footpath? As I think I mentioned above, Baron Blunkett of Brightside and Hillsborough resigned from Cabinet posts twice. Back in the days when The Times was still a broadsheet, I had a letter to the ed., published about him.

Re Bojo, AFAIK, one of the things about the law of defamation in England is that you have to get your claim in quick or it's likely to be taken that you accept it as true, which can open the way to a lot of repetition. Generally, UK politicians have been quick to use these laws as a way of silencing criticism, although a couple have become unstuck in spectacular fashion. I fancy this is why the media relish calling him a liar.
mikeonabike
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by mikeonabike »

Cunobelin wrote:I think that we can close the thread now...

\Boris is a very naughty boy, no other politicians should be discussed, mentioned or even considered because no-one will ever be as naughty as Boris.

It is really about attacking Boris than any sensible discussion about corruption and poor standards in Politics

Which other members of the cabinet do you think should be sacked? Liam Fox has been mentioned

Or is your point that standards have been allowed to slip so low that we shouldn't expect Boris not to lie? Which is the argument that motorists use to get away with driving dangerously because they are "just driving the way everyone does".
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bovlomov
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by bovlomov »

thirdcrank wrote:To keep it topical for a cycling forum, what about the guy who extended the fixed penalty system to cycling on the footpath? As I think I mentioned above, Baron Blunkett of Brightside and Hillsborough resigned from Cabinet posts twice. Back in the days when The Times was still a broadsheet, I had a letter to the ed., published about him.

Would you post the letter here? Blunkett is a particular area of interest for me, being the first reason I didn't vote Labour in 1997. As it turned out, he was worse than even I anticipated.

Re Bojo, AFAIK, one of the things about the law of defamation in England is that you have to get your claim in quick or it's likely to be taken that you accept it as true, which can open the way to a lot of repetition. Generally, UK politicians have been quick to use these laws as a way of silencing criticism, although a couple have become unstuck in spectacular fashion. I fancy this is why the media relish calling him a liar.

Let us not lose sight of the fact - lest anyone should forget - that Boris is an habitual liar. In my opinion, this isn't mentioned nearly enough.

EDIT: This is a court case I would love to see. Boris defending himself (not in legal terms but in fact) against accusations of dishonesty.
thirdcrank
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by thirdcrank »

bovlomov wrote: ... Would you post the letter here? Blunkett is a particular area of interest for me, being the first reason I didn't vote Labour in 1997. As it turned out, he was worse than even I anticipated. ...


I'm not sure if I can. It was umpteen hard disks ago so I won't have it backed up somewhere.

My wife does keep that sort of thing, but most of her archive consists of local newspaper reports of our children's soccer results. The elder is now 45 and still scoring goals so she has a lot more Morley Observer than anything else. :lol:

Once upon a time if The Times letter editor decided your letter would be published, you got a phone call from a member of their staff to discuss any editing they thought necessary and how you would like to be named. eg, From the Emeritus Dean of ... etc or Air Vice Marshal (Retired.) They seemed a bit disappointed when I said "retired police officer." (Edit: the "retired police officer" bit was raised when I wrote a letter about Merlyn Rees and the Police Federation.) If I cannot find it, DB had been sounding off about Home Office civil servants and I included a phrase along the lines that he might have been facing calls to resign had he not done so twice already.

FWIW, I've had half-a-dozen letters published in The Times over the years. I think the last was after the death of Raoul Moat. The Times had a retired police officer on the payroll and he had published what was IMO inaccurate comment piece about the events leading up to the police shooting him I wrote a letter relating my experiences of a broadly similar manhunt after Barry Peter Prudhom had murdered several police officers and was himself shot. By then, they had stopped ringing letter writers and they completely reworded my second paragraph criticising their retired policeman so completely altering the meaning of my letter. :evil:

BTW, my letters to the dead tree press are much more concise than my ramblings on here where space is unlimited. :oops: OTOH, everything I write in either medium is intended to add to the debate rather than as a vanity project. Come to think of it, in the days when The Times used to publish correspondents' addresses, I did get a letter from a vanity publisher. Wood eye? :lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Prudom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Nort ... ce_manhunt

===========================================================================
I've found it and FWIW, it's dated 28 April, 2006 (after The Times had changed to tabloid format.) IIRC, There had been some controversy about somebody being released from prison and some sort of cock-up preventing deportation. DB had leapt to the defence of his successor at the Home Office, Charles Clarke and blamed civil servants.

Events at the Home Office reveal a need for formal clarification of the relationship between ministers and their officials. The present Home Secretary and his immediate predecessor have made much of their efforts to rid the country of undesirable aliens and have denigrated the judiciary for a lack of co-operation.

Now we learn that when judges have recommended suitable candidates for deportation, the Home Office has often failed to act. Within the Home Office, the official responsible for ensuring co-ordination between prison and immigration authorities must be obvious, but is publicly anonymous. Indeed, David Blunkett, who might have been facing calls for his own resignation if he had not already gone twice, is quoted as blaming known officials. Ministers cannot be held responsible for everything but might be expected to take some interest in their hobby horses. If a minister remains in office after something as serious as this, perhaps it is time to end the myth of 'ministerial responsibility' behind which so much maladministration hides.

I see that Charles Clarke resigned as Home Secretary a week later on 5 May.
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bovlomov
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by bovlomov »

Many thanks. I had forgotten about Clarke resigning. I need to go back and read more about it.

In the end, all problems with the Home Office evaporated when it was divided a year or two later.
homeoffice.jpg


I had a few letters published, in the Guardian and Indie, about the Home Office under Clarke and Blunkett. If I still have them it will be in paper form.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by Cyril Haearn »

I had many letters published in local papers years ago, that is much easier than the Times cos the locals don't receive so many

Had a letter in published in a well-known motoring magazine suggesting vehicles be fitted with 70 mph limiters. Another Corris-pondent fumed, he could not believe someone who suggested that would read the magazine :wink:

Now we have these fora too, +99
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Cunobelin
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by Cunobelin »

mikeonabike wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I think that we can close the thread now...

\Boris is a very naughty boy, no other politicians should be discussed, mentioned or even considered because no-one will ever be as naughty as Boris.

It is really about attacking Boris than any sensible discussion about corruption and poor standards in Politics

Which other members of the cabinet do you think should be sacked? Liam Fox has been mentioned

Or is your point that standards have been allowed to slip so low that we shouldn't expect Boris not to lie? Which is the argument that motorists use to get away with driving dangerously because they are "just driving the way everyone does".







I am intetsted in ALL politicians across the board, whereas there is a concerted attempt to limit this to a small and specific range of politicians

Which rather illustrates the point about the bias and the real aims of the thread
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Cunobelin wrote:
I am intetsted in ALL politicians across the board, whereas there is a concerted attempt to limit this to a small and specific range of politicians

Which rather illustrates the point about the bias and the real aims of the thread


Johnson is the Foreign Secretary.
He is a big and influential "cheese" in the Govt.

That puts him into other territory than a backbencher.
With other responsibilty.
It is a significant difference.

He is my representative on the International stage. A sort of envoy!

I expect from him nothing less than the highest standards of intellect, wisdom and clever but fair diplomacy.
In other words, sharp and concise!

IMHO he has failed to meet the mark.
pete75
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by pete75 »

Cunobelin wrote:
I am intetsted in ALL politicians across the board, whereas there is a concerted attempt to limit this to a small and specific range of politicians

Which rather illustrates the point about the bias and the real aims of the thread


Except the thread is specifically about Johnson. Is criticism of him due to bias or because of the man's dishonesty, obfuscation and stupidity? You may regard is as the former but most thinking folk would say it's the latter.

You are free to start a thread discussing any other politician or politicians. Perhaps you should do so rather than criticise a thread about Boris Johnson for discussing Boris Johnson.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by Tangled Metal »

I think some people can accept threads have a natural flow and often move on to a wider discussion. This was headed that way but Cunobelin has been part of that natural thread drift to a more meaningful (IMHO) discussion about the trust in all politicians.

However that is being heavily stamped on and prevented. Instead this thread is repeatedly discussing the same thing over and over again without any merit that wasn't covered in the first couple of pages. Is that censorship or some other prevention of free speech? :wink:

It does show an interesting point. Boris is deeply controversial and polarising politician. Nobody really has a neutral position about him. If you dislike him it seems you'll want to express that over and over again to anyone who will listen or read about it.

Well I'm taking a break from here. I'll pop back in a few days to see if anything has changed or if there's anything new being posted
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bovlomov
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by bovlomov »

Tangled Metal wrote:I think some people can accept threads have a natural flow and often move on to a wider discussion. This was headed that way but Cunobelin has been part of that natural thread drift to a more meaningful (IMHO) discussion about the trust in all politicians.

However that is being heavily stamped on and prevented. Instead this thread is repeatedly discussing the same thing over and over again without any merit that wasn't covered in the first couple of pages. Is that censorship or some other prevention of free speech? :wink:

It does show an interesting point. Boris is deeply controversial and polarising politician. Nobody really has a neutral position about him. If you dislike him it seems you'll want to express that over and over again to anyone who will listen or read about it.

If Johnson is polarising, where are these people who think he is honest and competent? Boris isn't a polarising politician. There are people who think he is a nasty, incompetent liar, and there are people who think he is fairly bad but so are the others.

And what are the arguments regarding the other politicians? It isn't good enough just to assert that they are just as bad; there have to be arguments. How is Major just as bad? How is Corbyn just as bad? How is Abbott just as bad? I must say, I haven't noticed other views being 'heavily stamped' on. Do you mean 'disagreed with'? As far as I can see, there has been some agreement that political dishonesty is a cross party issue.

It's not so strange that we focus on Johnson rather than other politicians (Blair, for example). As mentioned above, he is our Foreign Secretary at a challenging time. He is our representative on the world stage. But with his loose language, glib insults and tin-ear for diplomacy he is doing enormous damage.

Cunobelin complained about the 'blond buffoon' in the thread title. I agree about that - for the same reason, and because it is a distraction from the man's real failures, which have only been skimmed over in this thread.
Last edited by bovlomov on 12 Apr 2018, 10:15am, edited 1 time in total.
thirdcrank
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by thirdcrank »

Tangled Metal wrote:... natural thread drift to a more meaningful (IMHO) discussion about the trust in all politicians. ...


And there was I thinking it was about a lack of trust in all politicians. Only pedantry, but a fundamental point here.

(BTW, I only mentioned the publication of my letter about Blunkett to demonstrate it's not just Bozzer. I must have posted before that when IDS came vote-seeking on my doorstep before the last General Election and introduced himself as having been the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions until he had resigned the post, I greeted him by saying I had cheered when he had resigned. 8) )

bovlomov posted before me. I've certainly no prejudice about blond politicians: IDS is in coot territory. :lol:
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bovlomov
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by bovlomov »

thirdcrank wrote:... it's dated 28 April, 2006 (after The Times had changed to tabloid format.) IIRC, There had been some controversy about somebody being released from prison and some sort of cock-up preventing deportation. DB had leapt to the defence of his successor at the Home Office, Charles Clarke and blamed civil servants.
[...]
I see that Charles Clarke resigned as Home Secretary a week later on 5 May.

Apparently, his offer to resign was refused by Blair, but Clarke left during the next reshuffle, after refusing another job.

Anyway, it's a strange story. Firstly, the point you raise, about Blunkett demanding that heads should roll (though not ministerial ones), But also the heart of the scandal. Over a thousand foreign prisoners (including violent, sex offenders and drug dealers) had been released without being even considered for deportation. For a tough-talking illiberal (I'm talking about Blunkett, under whom it started), deporting these foreign criminals seems like an easy gain with no political risk. Indeed, it would have been a good headline grabber. Passing up such an eye-catching opportunity? It can only have been incompetence.
thirdcrank
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by thirdcrank »

bovlomov wrote: ... it can only have been incompetence.


IMO it's the invitable result of concentrating on presentation AKA spin, rather than delivery. If a majority of people are convinced by carefully selected words, why bother going to the trouble of doing anything? Back to Bojo, perhaps part of his trouble is that he he doesn't select his words with sufficient care to ensure there's sufficient waggle room when doubts emerge.
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bovlomov
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Re: Blond buffoon caught lying yet again.

Post by bovlomov »

thirdcrank wrote:
bovlomov wrote: ... it can only have been incompetence.


IMO it's the invitable result of concentrating on presentation AKA spin, rather than delivery. If a majority of people are convinced by carefully selected words, why bother going to the trouble of doing anything?

I agree with that. Government by press release has been more exciting for ministers than doing the boring administrative chores.


Back to Bojo, perhaps part of his trouble is that he he doesn't select his words with sufficient care to ensure there's sufficient waggle room when doubts emerge.

Yes - part of it. That's the 'bumbling' aspect that the media so love. Then there are the other aspects...
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