Boris Johnson caught lying ? ( yet again ? )

[Flinders]

AFAIK, the only sackable offence for a politician related to truthfulness is misleading Parliament. Also AFAIK, Bozzer's sacking were when he was a journo.

I think the democratic rationale is that if you are elected in spite of things known about you, then the electorate has somehow forgiven you. When he was still a commoner, Baron Blunkett of Brightside and Hillsborough resigned ministerial office twice, for reasons not related to dishonesty. Having been re-elected to Parliament after his first resignation, the prime minister felt able to reappoint him to the Cabinet. After his second resignation, there wasn't another election before the formation of the Coalition Govt.

Mandelon resigned over financial impropriety not once but twice, and there were massive genuine concerns over his part in selling assets to the ~Russian Oligarch whose yacht he was holidaying on. There were also other improprieties and his dubious connections with China.

To this day he flaunts the rules as an ex-Minister by failing to declare clients and the somewhat dubious deals with the Lazzard Bank and Zimbabwe last year


Almost makes Boris look like a good guy

Corrupt lying politicians are common, but only a few seem to be the targets of a baying mob in the same way as Boris

Wasn't Fox fired twice for bad behaviour- including lying?

[Psamathe]

AFAIK, the only sackable offence for a politician related to truthfulness is misleading Parliament. Also AFAIK, Bozzer's sacking were when he was a journo.

I think the democratic rationale is that if you are elected in spite of things known about you, then the electorate has somehow forgiven you. When he was still a commoner, Baron Blunkett of Brightside and Hillsborough resigned ministerial office twice, for reasons not related to dishonesty. Having been re-elected to Parliament after his first resignation, the prime minister felt able to reappoint him to the Cabinet. After his second resignation, there wasn't another election before the formation of the Coalition Govt.

Mandelon resigned over financial impropriety not once but twice, and there were massive genuine concerns over his part in selling assets to the ~Russian Oligarch whose yacht he was holidaying on. There were also other improprieties and his dubious connections with China.

To this day he flaunts the rules as an ex-Minister by failing to declare clients and the somewhat dubious deals with the Lazzard Bank and Zimbabwe last year


Almost makes Boris look like a good guy

Corrupt lying politicians are common, but only a few seem to be the targets of a baying mob in the same way as Boris

Wasn't Fox fired twice for bad behaviour- including lying?

I'm not sure if it was Fox (sorry, Dr. Fox) or his un-elected sidekick Werrity or if it was just some secret double act ...

Ian

[pete75]

There are local elections where I live, lots of people are standing because they want to serve and decide
Very few of them will progress to well-paid posts higher up

Many politicians lose their job after one term, not all can go back to being well-paid lawyers

Some politicians fight for good causes and suffer a lot of abuse + criticism

Paul Flynn had some good ideas (can't remember what), Gladstone did a lot of modernising, there must be more where they came from [Wales ]

Gladstone came from Liverpool but was of Scottish ancestry.

I claim him for Wales as well, not instead
The 'peoples William' spent many holidays at Penmaenmawr, he made the place famous, one time the quarrymen met him at the station and pulled his wagon up Paradise Crescent themselves to show their appreciation
I am sure he made mistakes too just like anyone else

The Quarrymen were from Liverpool as well - later became the Beatles. A bit after Gladstone though

[pete75]

I can find an article that says Margaret Thatcher was equally good

in 2004 a survey of academics made her the 4th greatest Prime Minister in History, and anther in 2014 made her the greatest modern PM




Here is one that says the opposite to the CBS claims

Apt to this thread, given the context is that there are arguments that his aggressive handling of post WW2 politics is the main reason for the Cold War

Yeah but any article linking Thatcher and greatest is oxymoronic. Any fule kno that.

Of course Joseph Stalin had no main part in the development of the Cold War did he? Neither did Winston Churchill with his iron curtain speeches and his wish to attach Russia once Germany was defeated. It was all Harry S Truman. Dream on man.

Whatever you say Truman was not one of the most inept US presidents. The article you link to has soem odd attitudes - according to it teh creation of Israel was wrong, the Korean war was wrong, opposing Soviet expansion and influence in Europe was wrong. Make your mind up man these are usually things folk on the right are usually in favour of.

My emphasis.....

Stating that you are right despite the fact that there is discussion and controversy is a little narrow minded to say the least

To call him one of the most inept when there's Carter, Reagan, Nixon, Trump and George W Bush all ahead of him in the ineptness stakes without even looking at any pre WW2 presidents is a little silly minded to say the least.

[Cunobelin]

Yeah but any article linking Thatcher and greatest is oxymoronic. Any fule kno that.

Of course Joseph Stalin had no main part in the development of the Cold War did he? Neither did Winston Churchill with his iron curtain speeches and his wish to attach Russia once Germany was defeated. It was all Harry S Truman. Dream on man.

Whatever you say Truman was not one of the most inept US presidents. The article you link to has soem odd attitudes - according to it teh creation of Israel was wrong, the Korean war was wrong, opposing Soviet expansion and influence in Europe was wrong. Make your mind up man these are usually things folk on the right are usually in favour of.

My emphasis.....

Stating that you are right despite the fact that there is discussion and controversy is a little narrow minded to say the least

To call him one of the most inept when there's Carter, Reagan, Nixon, Trump and George W Bush all ahead of him in the ineptness stakes without even looking at any pre WW2 presidents is a little silly minded to say the least.

You have to take that up with the numerous historians who hold that opinion... or if you wish contest it with those who hold the opposite

There are many historians who would argue that all of those named were “great” and not inept at all, Ironically the "evidence" in support of Truman also puts no less than 6 of your candidates in the top 10 and several as being "better" than Truman

It simply illustrates that there are two sides and ignoring any other evidence because it doesn’t suit is what is rather silly and narrow minded

As with any politician there will be opposing opinions and controversies

[pete75]

My emphasis.....

Stating that you are right despite the fact that there is discussion and controversy is a little narrow minded to say the least

To call him one of the most inept when there's Carter, Reagan, Nixon, Trump and George W Bush all ahead of him in the ineptness stakes without even looking at any pre WW2 presidents is a little silly minded to say the least.

You have to take that up with the numerous historians who hold that opinion... or if you wish contest it with those who hold the opposite

There are many historians who would argue that all of those named were “great” and not inept at all, Ironically the "evidence" in support of Truman also puts no less than 6 of your candidates in the top 10 and several as being "better" than Truman

It simply illustrates that there are two sides and ignoring any other evidence because it doesn’t suit is what is rather silly and narrow minded

As with any politician there will be opposing opinions and controversies

Ok find any credible historian who argues that for example George W Bush or Donald Trump were/are great presidents as you claim.

Also where is the list that puts no less than six of the five I mentioned in the top ten.

[mikeonabike]

As with any politician there will be opposing opinions and controversies

I don't think there is any controversy or difference of opinion about the fact that Boris lied in this instance (and previously). But yes there is difference of opinion about whether he should resign over it.

Some of us will take a party political line on these issues. Myself, I also thought that Blair should resign for lying about Iraq "WMD" - but 40% of people voted for him to stay as PM.

Of course if he resigned from the cabinet, he would still be an MP. MPs just represent their constituents. But ministers represent us all (although they forget this sometimes). And Lords don't represent any of us - they should all resign anyway, apart from the ones who are trying to abolish themselves.

[Cunobelin]

As with any politician there will be opposing opinions and controversies

I don't think there is any controversy or difference of opinion about the fact that Boris lied in this instance (and previously). But yes there is difference of opinion about whether he should resign over it.

Some of us will take a party political line on these issues. Myself, I also thought that Blair should resign for lying about Iraq "WMD" - but 40% of people voted for him to stay as PM.

Of course if he resigned from the cabinet, he would still be an MP. MPs just represent their constituents. But ministers represent us all (although they forget this sometimes). And Lords don't represent any of us - they should all resign anyway, apart from the ones who are trying to abolish themselves.

It is amazing though how there is the keenness to excuse and exclude others equally or even more dubious, whilst continuing to attack a single MP

What needs to happen is to realise just how corrupt, venal and dishonest so many MPs and other politicians are there, rather than just a single example.

[reohn2]

.........What needs to happen is to realise just how corrupt, venal and dishonest so many MPs and other politicians are there, rather than just a single example.

I totally agree.
The political elite have been lying through their teeth for years,what makes it worse is that the honest ones all tarred with the same brush and as a result the public simply don't know who to trust.

[Flinders]

As with any politician there will be opposing opinions and controversies

I don't think there is any controversy or difference of opinion about the fact that Boris lied in this instance (and previously). But yes there is difference of opinion about whether he should resign over it.

Some of us will take a party political line on these issues. Myself, I also thought that Blair should resign for lying about Iraq "WMD" - but 40% of people voted for him to stay as PM.

Of course if he resigned from the cabinet, he would still be an MP. MPs just represent their constituents. But ministers represent us all (although they forget this sometimes). And Lords don't represent any of us - they should all resign anyway, apart from the ones who are trying to abolish themselves.

It is amazing though how there is the keenness to excuse and exclude others equally or even more dubious, whilst continuing to attack a single MP

What needs to happen is to realise just how corrupt, venal and dishonest so many MPs and other politicians are there, rather than just a single example.

This single example lies time after time after time, and the results of his lies have been devastating to other people- about whom he doesn't give the proverbial. That's the difference. Add to that the garden bridge, and his disgusting private behavior, and you could turn your analysis on its head, and say- nobody else would get away with this, so why does he continually get a free pass? Why is he not challenged hard by interviewers when he tells outright easily provable lies? I have no time for Blair, and I think he did lie about Iraq, but at least on that he was challenged by the media (though not enough in my opinion) and even he would have been toast had he done/said half the bad things Johnson has.
The fact that the likes of Johnson gets away with it all the time is exactly why they all try it on. If you play up to the media enough, it seems you can do anything.
The USA has its own problems not least with Trump, but at least their journalists aren't cowards, and will challenge liars and press them on their lies. Ours are too pathetic, and not nearly well enough prepared with the facts.

[Tangled Metal]

Boris does get challenged by media. More than Blair did. So many politicians get away with lies and worse but on this thread, right now, Boris is the politician being heavily criticised.

There's been statements saying that no other politician would get away with what Boris does but that's really not true. Mandelson, Blair, Major, Profumo, etc. There's a lot of things they've got away with and very few get pinged for what they do.

However right now Boris is the one being treated as worse than any other politician. Truth is he's not, he's exactly as bad as the others. Why do some get away with things and others get confronted?

BTW does anyone have any opinions on whether the Iranian - British lady's situation in Iran would be different if Boris wasn't in position or never made those comments? Personally I doubt anything would be different because it's a kind of proxy battle over sovereign loans. Things like that don't get sorted so Iran will always have its hostages. That's what I reckon she is.

[bovlomov]

However right now Boris is the one being treated as worse than any other politician. Truth is he's not, he's exactly as bad as the others.

Really? Major is as bad?

Boris's shortcomings would fill several volumes. From the Guppy conversation through to his recent cackhanded diplomacy, he has displayed arrogance, dishonesty, incompetence, laziness and boorishness in equal measure. The bridge, the bus, the cable car, the London Stadium deal and the Orbit sculpture; his dishonesty as a politician; his dishonesty as a journalist; dishonesty in his personal life; his dishonest political associates - each item merits a chapter in that grim book.

Those other politicians you mention had, or have, their faults, but none comes close to Johnson. For the others the self-serving was wrapped up with some feeling for the public good - however warped that might have been. For Boris it is, transparently, all about Boris.

I mentioned before, the saying 'He who is born to be hanged will never be drowned'. Boris has escaped drowning a few times, but I think his luck may be running out. The piano wire awaits - and it will most likely be tied by his closest friend.

[Cunobelin]

I think that we can close the thread now...

\Boris is a very naughty boy, no other politicians should be discussed, mentioned or even considered because no-one will ever be as naughty as Boris.

It is really about attacking Boris than any sensible discussion about corruption and poor standards in Politics

[Tangled Metal]

You noticed that too?

[bovlomov]

I think that we can close the thread now...

\Boris is a very naughty boy, no other politicians should be discussed, mentioned or even considered because no-one will ever be as naughty as Boris.

It is really about attacking Boris than any sensible discussion about corruption and poor standards in Politics

You are quite wrong. This is a thread about Boris, so comments will tend to be about him. If you would like to choose another politician, start a thread about him or her, and we'll see what we can dig up. I'll certainly have something to say about many of them, but I can't imagine it will be anything like the volume of material that we have for Johnson.

There have been discussions about other politicians (Blair, Corbyn, Cameron, Gove, Farage...), and about general standards in politics. Many of us have contributed to them. Nobody is telling you not to discuss other politicians. But many of us contend that Boris is much worse than other politicians, and dozens of items have been provided to support that. I found more last night, after I posted.

Perhaps TM will start a thread about Major. We'll see what we can come up with.