London Marathon

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mercalia
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Re: London Marathon

Postby mercalia » 24 Apr 2018, 10:36am

well this little run (the Marathon des Sables (MDS) )puts the London marathon into perspective?

In pictures: Sophie Raworth and the 150-mile desert ultra-marathon
marathon.JPG

I always thought she was just a pretty face doing a dumb job. wellI take my hat off to her for this little run, rather her than me

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-43867390

Tangled Metal
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Re: London Marathon

Postby Tangled Metal » 24 Apr 2018, 11:01am

mikeonabike wrote:One of the papers ran an article about marathon running being a rather unhealthy form of exercise - obviously strain on joints, but also because it's an extended period of not particularly hard work. Much better to do something more gentle with occasional hard cardio work.

It didn't go on to say that cycling would fit the bill here, but I know I feel much better after a good ride with a few decent hills.

The joints issue is kind of a myth. There's evidence that it's no worse for you than walking. There was a TV series where a gp presenting it ran tests (mostly on himself) to expose the truth over various health and fitness related topics. He went to a sports science department (Loughborough I suspect or it could be another prominent one in Wales iirc). They had pressure sensing mats and high speed gait analysis cameras / software. The evidence showed that the impact of running was greater with each footfall but it was a narrow pressure curve because the foot is in contact for a significantly shorter period than walking. Since it's total force or pressure that's causing the damage it was the area under the positive pressure part of the curve that signifies which causes the most damage fit distance covered. The truth is walking had the greatest area under the curve, you're travelling shorter distances with each waking stride, spending longer in contact with the ground applying pressure and generally causing more potential damage.

Of course running on uneven ground causing twisting could be the way running causes more knee injuries but without that it's better mode of movement than walking for getting around. Makes sense we're evolved for running being a grassland ape.

pwa
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Re: London Marathon

Postby pwa » 24 Apr 2018, 11:09am

When I was in my twenties I ran every day and sometimes ran a half marathon as an evening jog. But eventually I stopped because it was bad for my joints. Ankles, knees and hips all suffered. For me it was the wrong exercise, and I felt that long term it would probably do some real harm. So I did more cycling instead. My joint problems disappeared when the running stopped.

Tangled Metal
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Re: London Marathon

Postby Tangled Metal » 24 Apr 2018, 11:45am

I used to do long distance events (walking no running) but I still tore cartilage in my knee. Cycling was considered good for the knee while I was waiting for the operation. No twisting action just repetitive action in a linear direction due to pedalling. Almost tailor-made for one injuries. However walking was considered good too because there's impact (aids bone density retention as you age I think is the reason).

mercalia
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Re: London Marathon

Postby mercalia » 24 Apr 2018, 2:39pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
mikeonabike wrote:One of the papers ran an article about marathon running being a rather unhealthy form of exercise - obviously strain on joints, but also because it's an extended period of not particularly hard work. Much better to do something more gentle with occasional hard cardio work.

It didn't go on to say that cycling would fit the bill here, but I know I feel much better after a good ride with a few decent hills.

The joints issue is kind of a myth. There's evidence that it's no worse for you than walking. There was a TV series where a gp presenting it ran tests (mostly on himself) to expose the truth over various health and fitness related topics. He went to a sports science department (Loughborough I suspect or it could be another prominent one in Wales iirc). They had pressure sensing mats and high speed gait analysis cameras / software. The evidence showed that the impact of running was greater with each footfall but it was a narrow pressure curve because the foot is in contact for a significantly shorter period than walking. Since it's total force or pressure that's causing the damage it was the area under the positive pressure part of the curve that signifies which causes the most damage fit distance covered. The truth is walking had the greatest area under the curve, you're travelling shorter distances with each waking stride, spending longer in contact with the ground applying pressure and generally causing more potential damage.

Of course running on uneven ground causing twisting could be the way running causes more knee injuries but without that it's better mode of movement than walking for getting around. Makes sense we're evolved for running being a grassland ape.



well when you run there is more pressure on thw knees? You get a lot of joggers in London and I often hear them pounding along rather heavy footed. as for evidence, I seem to remember some thing like doctors found many young joggers have the knees of oaps - old before their time

bikepacker
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Re: London Marathon

Postby bikepacker » 24 Apr 2018, 4:13pm

My daughter ran it on Sunday it was her first marathon. She was running for the Spinal Injuries Charity as she has two titanium rods holding her broken spine in place following a horse riding accident.
There is your way. There is my way. But there is no "the way".

mikeonabike
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Re: London Marathon

Postby mikeonabike » 24 Apr 2018, 7:45pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Of course running on uneven ground causing twisting could be the way running causes more knee injuries but without that it's better mode of movement than walking for getting around. Makes sense we're evolved for running being a grassland ape.

I think the idea is that we are not actually evolved for running marathons. Our ancestors would have conserved their energy and sprinted short distances when attacking prey (or to run away from danger). Marathon-running just wears you out and suppress your immune system.

Of course marathon-running is better than couch surfing all day, but it isn't as good as cycling.

mercalia
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Re: London Marathon

Postby mercalia » 24 Apr 2018, 8:16pm

mikeonabike wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Of course running on uneven ground causing twisting could be the way running causes more knee injuries but without that it's better mode of movement than walking for getting around. Makes sense we're evolved for running being a grassland ape.

I think the idea is that we are not actually evolved for running marathons. Our ancestors would have conserved their energy and sprinted short distances when attacking prey (or to run away from danger). Marathon-running just wears you out and suppress your immune system.

Of course marathon-running is better than couch surfing all day, but it isn't as good as cycling.


easier on everything as more efficient vis the freewheel

reohn2
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Re: London Marathon

Postby reohn2 » 24 Apr 2018, 8:29pm

My two youngest daughters aged 34 and 32 ran the Manchester marathon this year :)
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paddler
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Re: London Marathon

Postby paddler » 24 Apr 2018, 8:46pm

mercalia wrote:
mikeonabike wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Of course running on uneven ground causing twisting could be the way running causes more knee injuries but without that it's better mode of movement than walking for getting around. Makes sense we're evolved for running being a grassland ape.

I think the idea is that we are not actually evolved for running marathons. Our ancestors would have conserved their energy and sprinted short distances when attacking prey (or to run away from danger). Marathon-running just wears you out and suppress your immune system.

Of course marathon-running is better than couch surfing all day, but it isn't as good as cycling.


easier on everything as more efficient vis the freewheel


I thought we were evolved for running long distances, for running down injured or weakened prey. Whatever, I have been running for 30 years and before that a childhood and early adulthood up to 30 years of age playing football and basketball with no worse effects on my knees than anyone else I know. And that includes walking the Appalachian Trail in 2014 (2185 miles). However, I know three people who have had to have knees replaced, one of whom did very little sport, one who did none and one who danced a bit as a child then got very overweight in later life. So who knows.

Dave

pwa
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Re: London Marathon

Postby pwa » 24 Apr 2018, 8:53pm

paddler wrote:
mercalia wrote:
mikeonabike wrote:I think the idea is that we are not actually evolved for running marathons. Our ancestors would have conserved their energy and sprinted short distances when attacking prey (or to run away from danger). Marathon-running just wears you out and suppress your immune system.

Of course marathon-running is better than couch surfing all day, but it isn't as good as cycling.


easier on everything as more efficient vis the freewheel


I thought we were evolved for running long distances, for running down injured or weakened prey. Whatever, I have been running for 30 years and before that a childhood and early adulthood up to 30 years of age playing football and basketball with no worse effects on my knees than anyone else I know. And that includes walking the Appalachian Trail in 2014 (2185 miles). However, I know three people who have had to have knees replaced, one of whom did very little sport, one who did none and one who danced a bit as a child then got very overweight in later life. So who knows.

Dave

Running seems to suit you. It damages me. Probably your legs just do it better than mine. I reckon it is just a matter of doing the exercise that seems to suit your body. If you are picking up lots of niggly injuries as I did when I ran, try something else.

pwa
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Re: London Marathon

Postby pwa » 24 Apr 2018, 8:55pm

reohn2 wrote:My two youngest daughters aged 34 and 32 ran the Manchester marathon this year :)

Presumably they have picked up the exercise thing from their parents setting a good example. Time to be justifiably smug perhaps.

Tizme
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Re: London Marathon

Postby Tizme » 24 Apr 2018, 8:59pm

I've run London 10 times, I did it when my daughter managed to get a ballot place on her 18th birthday, I wanted to run with her (although our finish times would be much different), I ran for a charity and when I finished clearly stated I had "ticked the box" and would not do it again, then I discovered I had qualified for the following year "Good For Age", I felt (several weeks later) that it would be a shame not to use the place - and continued to do so every time I qualified (10 times in 11 years, I was injured one year and deferred my entry). I also ran Edinburgh twice and Dublin once. The atmosphere at these events is really fantastic and I would recommend anyone to have a go, once.

Tangled Metal
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Re: London Marathon

Postby Tangled Metal » 24 Apr 2018, 9:50pm

There's cultures who still involve running as part of their life / strategy for survival. The idea of hunting, running down prey (injured or prior to injuring them). Or the tribe in central America who place great value on being able to run distances greater than a marathon in little more than sandals. Mexico, copper Valley I think but could be wrong.

Either way I think if you grow up doing running as integral to your life then you probably do better than someone who just starts from nowhere later on in life.

mercalia
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Location: london South

Re: London Marathon

Postby mercalia » 24 Apr 2018, 10:38pm

Tangled Metal wrote:There's cultures who still involve running as part of their life / strategy for survival. The idea of hunting, running down prey (injured or prior to injuring them). Or the tribe in central America who place great value on being able to run distances greater than a marathon in little more than sandals. Mexico, copper Valley I think but could be wrong.

Either way I think if you grow up doing running as integral to your life then you probably do better than someone who just starts from nowhere later on in life.


I dont think its the running its how you run? as I said earlier I see many heavy footed joggers stomping the ground and a few light footed ones (who seem to glide effortlessly over the ground )