What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by thirdcrank »

This is a case where the thread title should be kept to the forefront.

The current rises are pretty much beyond the control or influence of the UK government, being largely caused by things like a supply/price war between OPEC (not in itself a united organisation) and American shale producers; increasing fuel consumption in developing countries; fuel being internationally priced in $$$; "futures" markets being troubled by things like Trump scrapping the Iran deal; and the simple fact that oil is a finite resource, even though the date of running out has so frequently been wrongly predicted it's taken as a cry of "Wolf!"

The fuel price escalator was tried and quickly scrapped - for political reasons. I do know that a large element of fuel price "at the pump" is made up of taxation in various forms, but there seems little scope for this to be reduced.
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by horizon »

Quite. Rural workers are in that sense as "bad" as urban commuters and out-of-town shoppers. The car/van/truck and oil has allowed them to work anywhere. When oil prices rise, their way of life and work is threatened and they naturally scream "unfair". What I was referring to were people who lived and worked in the same village. Which of course they don't. That might change however with more community initiatives, village workspaces, locally protected housing and the use of broadband.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by horizon »

thirdcrank wrote:
The fuel price escalator was tried and quickly scrapped - for political reasons. I do know that a large element of fuel price "at the pump" is made up of taxation in various forms, but there seems little scope for this to be reduced.


Had the fuel price escalator actually been operative, it could gave been used to iron out international oil price changes. Instead of which it has locked people into a fantasy world of longer commutes and a reliance on cheap fuel which then leaves them vulnerable to real price changes. Petrol prices seem to stay the same for long enough for people to change their lifestyles but not long enough to see them through.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by reohn2 »

thirdcrank wrote:This is a case where the thread title should be kept to the forefront.

The current rises are pretty much beyond the control or influence of the UK government, being largely caused by things like a supply/price war between OPEC (not in itself a united organisation) and American shale producers; increasing fuel consumption in developing countries; fuel being internationally priced in $$$; "futures" markets being troubled by things like Trump scrapping the Iran deal; and the simple fact that oil is a finite resource, even though the date of running out has so frequently been wrongly predicted it's taken as a cry of "Wolf!"

The fuel price escalator was tried and quickly scrapped - for political reasons. I do know that a large element of fuel price "at the pump" is made up of taxation in various forms, but there seems little scope for this to be reduced.


But if car used was restricted,then that tax income would fall anyway.The message seems clear that one way or another the government coffers will suffer and either we're all d :shock: med or transport in the UK needs a radical rethink.
Going off the recent rail debacle the UK is well behind that curve due to it's universal reliance on the private motor having a stranglehold one way or the other :?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pwa
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by pwa »

horizon wrote:Quite. Rural workers are in that sense as "bad" as urban commuters and out-of-town shoppers. The car/van/truck and oil has allowed them to work anywhere. When oil prices rise, their way of life and work is threatened and they naturally scream "unfair". What I was referring to were people who lived and worked in the same village. Which of course they don't. That might change however with more community initiatives, village workspaces, locally protected housing and the use of broadband.


I know people who live and work in our village, and they still go places in the car. To the shops (and the local shop will never replace the supermarket) or the comprehensive school to pick the kids up to take them to the dentists, or whatever. Indeed, on the days that my wife drives to work she can visit the supermarket on the way home and kill two birds with one stone. The price of fuel going up must encourage that combining of journeys, which is a good habit to get into.
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by Mick F »

pete75 wrote:
horizon wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:It must hit people who live and work in rural areas hard.


Not if they live and work in a rural area - most don't: they live in the rural area and work in the town.


Eh? A lot of people who live and work in rural areas travel some distance to work. Many agricultural workers these days are self employed and work on frams all over the place. There are also many food processing factories in rural areas and these draw their workforce from a wide area.

Yep.
Most workers round here work locally. Some commute to the Big City, but most work locally or as local as you can get in a rural environment. I understand that there's car sharing going on.

No way on God's Earth that people here would cycle to Morrisons/Tesco/etc for their shopping. :lol: :lol:
Best thing would be to do the shopping online and get them to deliver to your door, but not everyone likes that, not even me.
Mick F. Cornwall
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by pete75 »

horizon wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
The fuel price escalator was tried and quickly scrapped - for political reasons. I do know that a large element of fuel price "at the pump" is made up of taxation in various forms, but there seems little scope for this to be reduced.


Had the fuel price escalator actually been operative, it could gave been used to iron out international oil price changes. Instead of which it has locked people into a fantasy world of longer commutes and a reliance on cheap fuel which then leaves them vulnerable to real price changes. Petrol prices seem to stay the same for long enough for people to change their lifestyles but not long enough to see them through.


Yes but we don't have cheap fuel and never have that I can remember. The price has always been made artificially high by heavy taxation. If the price of fuel is bearing too heavily on some folk maybe the tax needs to come down. It is, of course, a regressive tax bearing most heavily on people with lower incomes.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by Mick F »

I've asked this question before when we've been discussing the cost of petrol.

How does the cost compare to the average weekly wage through the years?

I remember my dad complaining about paying 5/6d a gallon. By the time my mum was driving - 1962? - I think I remember her paying 5/10d a gallon.

Let's say that petrol was 5/- a gallon in 1960.
That's four gallons for a quid.
Say £15 per week wages.
That's 60galls a week.

These days, 60galls = 273litres which would cost @ 120p per litre = £327.60

What is the average weekly wage now?
Mick F. Cornwall
CliveyT
Posts: 461
Joined: 13 Jun 2012, 2:55pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by CliveyT »

Mick F wrote:I've asked this question before when we've been discussing the cost of petrol.

How does the cost compare to the average weekly wage through the years?

I remember my dad complaining about paying 5/6d a gallon. By the time my mum was driving - 1962? - I think I remember her paying 5/10d a gallon.

Let's say that petrol was 5/- a gallon in 1960.
That's four gallons for a quid.
Say £15 per week wages.
That's 60galls a week.

These days, 60galls = 273litres which would cost @ 120p per litre = £327.60

What is the average weekly wage now?


You also need to factor in that cars are more efficient now, and there are bypasses/ motorways etc (even if there's also more congestion). You'll get a fair bit further on your 273 litres today than you would have in 1960
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 20700
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by Vorpal »

CliveyT wrote:
Mick F wrote:I've asked this question before when we've been discussing the cost of petrol.

How does the cost compare to the average weekly wage through the years?

I remember my dad complaining about paying 5/6d a gallon. By the time my mum was driving - 1962? - I think I remember her paying 5/10d a gallon.

Let's say that petrol was 5/- a gallon in 1960.
That's four gallons for a quid.
Say £15 per week wages.
That's 60galls a week.

These days, 60galls = 273litres which would cost @ 120p per litre = £327.60

What is the average weekly wage now?


You also need to factor in that cars are more efficient now, and there are bypasses/ motorways etc (even if there's also more congestion). You'll get a fair bit further on your 273 litres today than you would have in 1960

Car themselves also cost much less, now, and provide better comfort, safety, and performance, as well as the noted economy.

Insurance is more expensive, so I'm not sure how it all falls out.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by horizon »

CliveyT wrote:
You also need to factor in that cars are more efficient now, and there are bypasses/ motorways etc (even if there's also more congestion). You'll get a fair bit further on your 273 litres today than you would have in 1960


I cannot remember the source but this was refuted: cars have now taken up the fuel efficiency with increases in weight and size. If you suddenly come across a car from the 1950s, even like a Rover, you will be shocked at how small it is.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by thirdcrank »

horizon wrote: ... I cannot remember the source but this was refuted:


I think this is one where it needs a proper source to see what they are saying in detail.
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by Mick F »

My dad used to be very pleased with 35mpg on a long run. :lol:
No doubt he used a pint or two of oil too.
Black sit-up-and-beg Ford Pop.

Also, food costs were astronomical back in those days. Chicken was a luxury reserved for special occasions, and we survived on cheap cuts and stews and puddings. People talk of the rising costs of food these days, but they have forgotten what it was like post war.
Mick F. Cornwall
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by thirdcrank »

FWIW, in 1965 when I got my driving licence, around here regular petrol was 4/6d a gallon. 22.5p in the new money.
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Post by pete75 »

Mick F wrote:My dad used to be very pleased with 35mpg on a long run. :lol:
No doubt he used a pint or two of oil too.
Black sit-up-and-beg Ford Pop.

Also, food costs were astronomical back in those days. Chicken was a luxury reserved for special occasions, and we survived on cheap cuts and stews and puddings. People talk of the rising costs of food these days, but they have forgotten what it was like post war.


Yep. We usually had roast beef on a Sunday and shop chicken was regarded as an expensive special treat. A lot of low cost food about then too - eggs from our own chickens - a meal when one stopped laying, Dad grew about 1/4 acre of tates which lasted well along with other veg, uncle kept pigs and supplied us with bacon , ham and sausages for free. Soft fruit and blackberries made into jam, glut of fruit in teh autumns lasted well if stored right. Rabbits, hares and teh odd pheasant appeared regularly on our table - all free. People who worked on farms often dropped off stuff as well.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Post Reply