What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

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bovlomov
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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby bovlomov » 6 Jun 2018, 11:39am

Parental 'choice' and larger schools means more children going to school miles from their homes. Conversion of small industrial units and industrial estates into housing means people travel further to work and further to find the services they need. While this might only make a small difference to each person - two or three miles to the edge of town rather than a few hundred yards - it must translate to billions of extra miles per year across the population.

A useful rural shop might save a 20 mile round trip for a few hundred people. If the weekly fuel bill for that community was the difference between a shop thriving or failing, then it would be well spent on the former.

I don't think it is being naive to say that much could be done to reduce the need for short car journeys. All it needs is some long term planning and state intervention (which emoji to insert?).

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby Vorpal » 6 Jun 2018, 11:43am

As far as I'm concerned, the more expensive it is to drive, the better.

However, this has to be countered by improvements in public transport, or it will adversely impact those who can least afford it.
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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Jun 2018, 11:57am

bovlomov wrote: ... I don't think it is being naive to say that much could be done to reduce the need for short car journeys. All it needs is some long term planning and state intervention (which emoji to insert?).


There's a ready-made policy in the form of the Notional Cycling Strategy which was largely based on the idea of a modal shift for journeys of under 5 miles.

The "must have a car" approach really means either "the availability of relatively cheap private motor transport has led me into a situation where I totally rely on it" or "the increased use of motor vehicles has made it impossible for me to continue to use public transport / too frightened to cycle."

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby bovlomov » 6 Jun 2018, 12:07pm

thirdcrank wrote:There's a ready-made policy in the form of the Notional Cycling Strategy which was largely based on the idea of a modal shift for journeys of under 5 miles.

The "must have a car" approach really means either "the availability of relatively cheap private motor transport has led me into a situation where I totally rely on it" or "the increased use of motor vehicles has made it impossible for me to continue to use public transport / too frightened to cycle."

But what about approaching the problem from the other end: reducing the need for some of those journeys?

It seems to me that education, planning, health and tax policies have, by many complex mechanisms, pushed people further from the things they need. It might save the state money on the one hand, perhaps by centralising resources, but it costs in ill health, social isolation and environmental damage. And wasted time sitting in cars on bypasses.

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Jun 2018, 1:59pm

bovlomov wrote: ... But what about approaching the problem from the other end: reducing the need for some of those journeys? ...


I coudn't agree more, but I've lived through the period when the private motor car + road transport of every type of goods has brought us to where we are now as described in your earlier post beginning "parental choice." "Turned central place theory on its head" is a phase I've used - and I see little prospect of a reversal, short of things like a collapse of the economy. At the risk of being portrayed as a Project Fear merchant, I could see that coming quite suddenly: in the past, printed money has always led to trouble and there's no reason to think it's different this time round. Trump seems intent on a trade war, everybody is up to their neck in debt, including PCP loans for cars. We're d :shock: med!

I don't want to seem a humbug here. I've gradually become more motorised like most others.

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby Mick F » 6 Jun 2018, 2:18pm

Vorpal wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the more expensive it is to drive, the better.

However, this has to be countered by improvements in public transport, or it will adversely impact those who can least afford it.
Spot on.
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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby pwa » 6 Jun 2018, 2:32pm

My daughter has just ensured that my mother got on her train from Bridgend to Manchester Piccadilly where she will be met by my brother. My daughter is upset because she had to leave my Mum, 85 with a pacemaker and not good on her feet, standing in a ram packed train with her small case beside her. Next time I will drive her.

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Jun 2018, 3:21pm

pwa wrote:... Next time I will drive her.


That's understandable and these days I seem to do a lot of family taxi jobs but your mother is increasingly likely to be stuck for hours in your car on a motorway while a crash is cleared. There are regular prolonged closures around here eg yesterday afternoon four lorries and three cars in a crash between J30 and J31 eastbound on the M62 and when the vehicles had been removed, mopping up the milk spillage from a tanker. Delays in the other direction caused by drivers rubber necking the crash.

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby pwa » 6 Jun 2018, 3:27pm

thirdcrank wrote:
pwa wrote:... Next time I will drive her.


That's understandable and these days I seem to do a lot of family taxi jobs but your mother is increasingly likely to be stuck for hours in your car on a motorway while a crash is cleared. There are regular prolonged closures around here eg yesterday afternoon four lorries and three cars in a crash between J30 and J31 eastbound on the M62 and when the vehicles had been removed, mopping up the milk spillage from a tanker. Delays in the other direction caused by drivers rubber necking the crash.


True. But at least she is guaranteed a seat when she goes by car. And she does need a seat. Rail passengers are treated in a way that would be illegal if it were cattle and not people. I now avoid trains whenever possible. They are a last resort.

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby horizon » 6 Jun 2018, 3:27pm

pwa wrote:My daughter has just ensured that my mother got on her train from Bridgend to Manchester Piccadilly where she will be met by my brother. My daughter is upset because she had to leave my Mum, 85 with a pacemaker and not good on her feet, standing in a ram packed train with her small case beside her. Next time I will drive her.


Just out of curiosity, why didn't your daughter/you accompany your mother on the train? BTW, I think if notified staff will look after vulnerable travellers such as your mother.
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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Jun 2018, 3:42pm

We're back to me throwing stones in the canal and my dear old dad asking what would happen if everybody did it. That's happening with motor traffic.

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby bovlomov » 6 Jun 2018, 3:50pm

thirdcrank wrote:We're back to me throwing stones in the canal and my dear old dad asking what would happen if everybody did it. That's happening with motor traffic.

The world would be a happier place if everyone had time to stop and throw a stone into a canal every once in a while. Paving slabs, bicycles and shopping trolleys, not so much.

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby pwa » 6 Jun 2018, 4:18pm

horizon wrote:
pwa wrote:My daughter has just ensured that my mother got on her train from Bridgend to Manchester Piccadilly where she will be met by my brother. My daughter is upset because she had to leave my Mum, 85 with a pacemaker and not good on her feet, standing in a ram packed train with her small case beside her. Next time I will drive her.


Just out of curiosity, why didn't your daughter/you accompany your mother on the train? BTW, I think if notified staff will look after vulnerable travellers such as your mother.


I had to mind the car, with there being no dropping off area and the traffic wardens quite attentive. So I took my daughter to do the accompanying. But when the train arrived it was already full with people standing. My Mum had, in theory, a reserved seat, but had difficulty even getting close, then there was some confusion over the seat numbering system. My daughter was looking for an F, but couldn't see one, and had to rush off the train so she didn't end up on an unplanned journey. Chaos. Apparently there were passengers sitting on the knees of other passengers, presumably people they know. They do now if they didn't before. My hope is that some decent person will have noticed an elderly lady a bit unsure on her feet and given up their seat for her. That's what I would have done.

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby irc » 6 Jun 2018, 4:39pm

Username wrote: Plus theres the fines. Cameras get you when you are speeding, traffic wardens get you when you're not speeding at all, and the ......... How do so many people cope with all that shiz every day!? They have my sympathy.


I've found that driving somewhere near the speed limit and taking a bit of car parking has meant no fines for anything car related bar a couple of parking tickets. Not bad after driving for almost 40 years.

The roads are busier. Obviously when the number of cars has increased and new road building hasn't.

As for other options. The average car journey may be 7 miles but if 4 or more of my weekly journeys are 20 miles each way to work then I'm going to need a car. Public transport not only takes 4 or 5 times as long for that journey but can't get me there for a 7am start.

As for costs. Hadn't noticed they were rapidly increasing. Insurance much the same. Car prices likewise. A variation in fuel won't make any difference. With all up per mile costs anywhere from 30-60p per mile depending on various factors another 2por 4p per mile in fuel won't make much difference.

Maybe a small reduction in driving at the margins.

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Re: What might be the effects of the rapidly increasing motor vehicle fuel costs?

Postby reohn2 » 6 Jun 2018, 5:26pm

pwa wrote:My daughter has just ensured that my mother got on her train from Bridgend to Manchester Piccadilly where she will be met by my brother. My daughter is upset because she had to leave my Mum, 85 with a pacemaker and not good on her feet, standing in a ram packed train with her small case beside her. Next time I will drive her.

Nail,head,on!
Which illustrates the state of public transport in the UK,it needs renationalising soon and being run efficiently and reliably as a service to the public,instead of a business to provide profits for investors!
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