Who should we be boycotting?

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Vorpal
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby Vorpal » 24 Jun 2018, 6:42am

661-Pete wrote:Throughout the 1960s, 70s and 80s, my family boycotted produce from South Africa during the reign of the apartheid regime. Did our action, and those of millions of other like-minded people, bring the end of apartheid one month closer? With hindsight, I think not.

Sociologists and others who study such things have concluded that the anti-apartheid movement was one of the most influential social movements in history. It is also consider important in the formation of the global social conscience or 'global civil society'.

I went to see Archbishop Desmond Tutu speak in the USA in the late 80s & he had a large audience. He was an inspiring speaker.

When the South African Rugby team toured New Zealand in the 80s, they were met with massive protests. Some matches were forced to be cancelled. It made international headlines. https://www.thenational.ae/sport/the-fl ... d-1.232069

As for what caused it, there is considerable disagreement amongst historians. Personally, I would not like to give de Clerk too much credit. Although he was a big factor, it would not have happened if the anti-apartheid movement within South Africa had not made the country nearly ungovernable.
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby brynpoeth » 30 Jun 2018, 2:30pm

:?:
pwa wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Suntanning saloons

Is there anything more unnecessary?

Never been to one mind, can't stop using them. Can one only "boycott" something one has used?


You clearly need to use one once, so that you can then boycott them and never use them again. I'm surprised you hadn't thought of that. I recommend all-over deep bronze.

I have always boycotted tattoo saloons but I wonder whether I should have a discreet (or indiscreet?) Ddraig goch, Red Dragon
Where is the best place (best part of the body, I mean)?

Then I could boycott tattoo studios too :wink:
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby brynpoeth » 30 Jun 2018, 2:33pm

Vorpal wrote:
661-Pete wrote:Throughout the 1960s, 70s and 80s, my family boycotted produce from South Africa during the reign of the apartheid regime. Did our action, and those of millions of other like-minded people, bring the end of apartheid one month closer? With hindsight, I think not.

Sociologists and others who study such things have concluded that the anti-apartheid movement was one of the most influential social movements in history..
..
..

Plus One for that, aka 1968 (?) and 1989

When will be the next awakening?
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby Username » 12 Jul 2018, 1:06am

I boycott Ferarri because I cant afford one.

Actually its a bit difficult to boycott stuff. You hear of one company treating their workers like feces, but then loads of others also treat their workers the same. I'd end up not buying anything if could only buy from businesses that pay decent wages and treat people well. Probably wouldnt have any of my bikes. :shock:

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Sweep
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby Sweep » 12 Jul 2018, 7:28am

mjr wrote:
paddler wrote:There are plenty of substitutes. It's just that the OP wasn't asking for them.

Fortunately, we are not paid by the OP - or that pub chain ;-) - to post on this forum so we can tell each other the truth rather than only what the OP wants to hear.

Just wandered here.
You are claiming I was paid over here as well? bizarre and bizzare beyond bizarre.
Sweep

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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby mjr » 12 Jul 2018, 9:28am

Sweep wrote:You are claiming I was paid over here as well? bizarre and bizzare beyond bizarre.

No, just referencing that discussion. Bizarre is your misinterpretation.
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby al_yrpal » 12 Jul 2018, 9:56am

Yes, bizzare, but unsurprising :?

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meic
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby meic » 12 Jul 2018, 12:12pm

On the most important issues I should be boycotting almost everybody, growing my own food, disconnected from the utilities, refusing to pay taxes and only trading with like-minded people.
In order to have a more comfortable life (and retain my liberty) I have to make compromises.

Then there is the contrasting moral argument of maintaining my own personal moral viewpoint v respecting other people's moral viewpoint and their freedom to express it.

So generally I dont follow whimsical trendy boycotts which are totally disproportionate, considering the big picture. However such issues do influence my choices and when you have a comparable choice between "ethical" and "unethical" purchase choices, you opt for the ethical one, until the burden of doing so is significant.

It is easy to make a token gesture, jumping on a fashionable fad, while leaving the remaining 99% of your lifestyle unscrutinised. Then forgetting about the fad at the same time as everybody else does.
Some boycotts are based on points which are ridiculously superficial, getting all het up about a product which lied about being 90% efficient and was only 80% in real life and then buying a 60% efficient product as a protest against it. Normally such protests have been engineered by vested interests.

Positive purchasing should be a better way of going about things, just so long as it isnt gratuitous consumption. It can still be the choice of the lesser of two evils as the people you are buying from are having to operate in an imperfect world too.
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Jul 2018, 12:21pm

I once boycotted the sun newspaper. I could claim it was over Hillsborough (half my family comes from Liverpool so there's some sympathy for that view) but tbh the overriding reason was it is a poor excuse for a newspaper.

I also boycott express, mail and pretty much every local rag (except I'll get Westmoreland Gazette) for similar reasons. I could have added guardian and independent but on this site I'd get criticised for that. :wink:

Of course they're not boycotts but a personal choice, however if I claim it can you be sure it's not a boycott?

I think it is easy to claim a boycott but in reality if the subject of your boycott doesn't know about it then is it really a boycott?

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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby meic » 12 Jul 2018, 12:31pm

I'm sure entities see it as more of a "lost marketing opportunity".

I wonder how many people have given up something they really wanted out of such principles.
How evil would Unilever Brooke-Bond have to get for me to stop buying PG tips? Unilever has done some pretty bad things by my moral compass in their time, they are a massive conglomerate how could they not have transgressed.

I remember after a Chinese meal during a Greenpeace activity a delicious looking plate of After Eights came with the bill. As the hands reached out for them a voice said "Remember they are Nestle", the look of disappointment on all of our faces was a sight to see! :lol:
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby Vorpal » 12 Jul 2018, 1:08pm

meic makes some really good points, and it's an approach that I largely follow.

I do set a slightly higher priority on buying things locally, preferably from small businesses. I have never investigated whether, for example, the local farmers whose produce I buy treat their animals and employees well, and follow the same kind of approach when they purchase equipment seed, or food for themselves and their families.

Similarly, I tend to believe the certifications on products, and don't distinguish between one product and another that says it is made of recycled material, or has the Forest Stewardhsip Council or Rainforest Alliance symbol on, although I imagine that some are better than others.

I also avoid buying products that have to be 'flown in' from somewhere, like tomatoes and soft fruit out of season. I either buy it tinned or frozen, or don't buy it. Tinned tomatoes are fine for cooking, and it's ridiculous to expect fresh tomatoes in northern Europe in winter, when they are flown in from more southerly places, like Morrocco or the Canary Islands.

I have to admit that it is becoming more of a hardhsip to not buy some things, like soft fruit out of season. Even 10 years ago, it would have been of such inferior taste and quality that I would not feel I was missing much, but the taste and quality have improved enough in recent years to make them worth buying, did I not have other reasons not to.

I have to admit that I would have a *really* hard time giving up chocolate. I do buy it from companies that use Fairtrade chocolate, and have strong ethical and environmental policies in place. Unfortunately, it's extremely difficult to get around the control that large corporate conglomerates have on the chocolate market. And improved policies and organisations like Cocoa Life have not prevented the continuing illegal destruction of forest in western Africa. I could buy chocolate that only comes from South America and the Dominican Republic (where it is native), but then what of the African farmers who grow cocoa legally on just a few acres, and depend upon the income for their livelihoods?
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby al_yrpal » 12 Jul 2018, 2:34pm

Having been to many African and South American Countries and witnessed their poverty at first hand we always go out of our way to buy their stuff. Roses from Ecuador, Kenyan beans, Morrocan tomatoes and Strawberries etc As for the environmental effects of transporting it I just hope they are using the best methods. Out of season its nice to have the choice of fresh fruit and veg. The only thing I boycott is Midland HSBC bank who refused us a mortgage when we first married, ( Westminster Bank fell over themselves to step in and save the day) HSBC will never get any business from us or our family.

As for Spoons, their shares are £12.50 and quoted in todays Times as a strong buy. Well done Tim!

Al
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby meic » 12 Jul 2018, 2:56pm

Decades ago, before I became a vegetarian, I was touring Ireland with an Irish friend and we both had a moral eating policy which we stuck to when choosing meat.

I would only eat open farmed animals or ones taken from the wild so as not to fund factory farming.
He would only eat factory farmed meat as it was a favour to put an end to their misery but would not take part in killing something that was having a good life.
Both of our policies had their flaw.

Flying your food in from Africa has its good and its bad points, how do you balance them?
There are ways, like paying Africans to grow things that we can not grow closer to home but mere mortals have to work their way to a correct moral situation and we will not always* get it right.

*seldom would be more likely
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby brynpoeth » 12 Jul 2018, 7:21pm

Seems a bit perverse to fly flowers and vegs from Africa, both contain a lot of water which is short down there

One product that should certainly be boycotted is bottled water. I used to work at a firm that provided water in glass bottles free for staff. We were on the third floor with no lift, the servicepersons had to heave the crates on sack trucks up the stairs and the empties down again, heavy glass bottles weigh almost as much empty. They were a couple of gents 50+, wonder if their health suffered

I always drank tap water, can't remember being challenged about it, what arguments could I have used?
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Re: Who should we be boycotting?

Postby Sweep » 12 Jul 2018, 10:54pm

mjr wrote:
Sweep wrote:You are claiming I was paid over here as well? bizarre and bizzare beyond bizarre.

No, just referencing that discussion. Bizarre is your misinterpretation.



No - you are not "referencing".

You are repeating a slur/accusation for which you had no evidence the first time around.

And have none in this other thread.

Feel free to offer evidence.

Or the other one about them being anti-cycling.

I am old enough to know that when something doesn't make sense/is beyond understanding (me taking backhanders, Mr Martin being on some sort of anti cycling mission) something else is going on.

And there lies the real story.
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