Passing on old knowledge

[mercalia]

well given all the troubles of the world we keep on getting assaulted with here is a nice story of young kids being taught how to mend punctures and other things

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/education-44490618/meet-the-kids-learning-to-fix-punctures

its sad statement that it has to be done in a community centre rather than at home, though?

[fausto copy]

Quite often I've been in the LBS when a mother and child have come in to get a puncture fixed.
I suppose it's possible that the Dad is too busy at work to sort it, but the feedback I had from the staff was that it
is usually a single mother with no knowledge of how to fix a puncture.
So the passing of of old knowledge like this seems certainly sensible.

Mind you, seeing the way some of the male members went about fixing punctures on some of our club rides......

fausto.

[iandriver]

I've often wondered if we shouldn't have a different approach in schools etc. for more practical based lessons to some degree. I left in '84, so I'm well out of touch, but I recall making a screwdriver on a lathe and doing doved tail joints in woodwork.

No one showed you how to drill a hole in brick and hang a mirror.

In music, if you wanted the learn the Double Bass of Tuba, no problem. If you wanted to learn guitar or an instrument you might take forward in your life, no chance.

[fausto copy]

I remember bringing this up when at grammar school back in the 60's.
My Dad died when I was 18 months old and Mum brought me and baby sister up.
My Grandad helped with certain practical subjects, mostly gardening and woodwork.
However, I had no idea how to wire an electric plug for example.
Practical topics were mostly well covered at the comprehensive or other secondary modern schools
and as I had no intention of staying on for A-levels and Uni, I felt I was missing out on good practical know how.
Thankfully a bit more street (and home)-wise 50 years later.

[Tangled Metal]

Whilst fixing a puncture is easy in not adverse to getting a bike shop to do easy jobs myself. Not puncture but fitting racks, mudguards, etc whilst it's on anyway I've done. Simple truth is the bike is in for service or repair or replacement of bb or something then adding guards is no big deal. While they're doing it (a lot quicker than I would because I'm too perfectionist for my own good) I'm doing things I consider more interesting, productive and fun.

I will admit to not liking the task of fixing punctures. That's why I tend to go for tyres with a good reputation for resisting punctures. I've personally not had many punctures! Generally it's one every couple of years.

BTW do you know that the single women with children don't know how to fix punctures? What if they do know but don't like to do it so prefer to pay for someone else to do it? Is there anything wrong with that?

It seems to me that not doing your own jobs on your bike is frowned upon by some on here. You're not a real cyclist if you don't get your hands dirty messing around with bike parts, grease and oil. The cycling hierarchy of you like.

I don't hold with any of that because ultimately the only thing that matters with cycling is being out on your bike. All the rest is just to keep you out there on your bike, secondary to the fun part IMHO.

BTW the only thing stopping me getting a shop to put the rack on my kid's bike is the fact they charge £15. A fiver and they'd get the job! Not a hard job or a lengthy job or a dirty job. It's just I can drop the bike off and do a nice family walk from the carpark plus cafe stop, bike shop browse and generally enjoy a nice family time for the cost of the work. IMHO family time is at a higher rate than bike mechanic's time (it's priceless you could say) . It's just £15 is too much IMHO, hate the idea of being ripped off. Although it's the going rate it still seems high.

So does anyone else think there is nothing wrong with getting others to work on your bike if that's what you want to do? Anyone else who doesn't care about bike fettling as a hobby?

[Tangled Metal]

More on topic at did metalwork and woodwork at school until we could drop them for me academic topics and specialism (science, arts or humanities). It was a grammar school so academic subjects were higher priority.

Besides those topics were doss subjects and weren't taught as well or as strictly. What did we learn? Well tbh nothing of importance. I learnt all I know from either watching / helping my dad or just self taught common sense. Changing plugs for example is easy since plugs come with card telling you the wiring colours. Painting and paper hanging is common sense and you get better doing it. Drilling holes in walls? Well common sense I think should prevail.

Having said that some of our walls are dire for drilling into. I've had to have one drill bit per hole. Proper masonry bits going blunt with just one hole for one rawlplug. The stone blocks are just so hard on some walls. If anyone has any old knowledge to stop that I'd be grateful to find out a way to drill more than one or two holes per drill bit.

[Si]

Kids are taught to fix p*nct*res in school (along with basic maintenance) if the school opts to do bikeability-fix. Alas, in my area at least, few do.

[[XAP]Bob]

One of the benefits of cycling is that the mechanics are simple enough to be done by most people with a little care. Particularly true in the age of youtube!

That doesn't make it compulsory, but it does help people if they have a mechanical whilst riding... if you do your own maintenance then you can deal with things at the roadside.

But...
The same used to be true of cars - you'd spent the weekend servicing the car, and when it broke down during the week you'd get the hammer, a bit of wire and a pair of tights out and bodge it to get you home, then fix it. Cars nowadays are sufficiently reliable that most people prefer to pay someone else to check and service the car at much less frequent intervals.

The bike is still essentially a simple mechanical device, with frequent compromises between efficiency, weight and reliability. You don't get to pick all three very often...
So we'll likely be in the 'benefit of doing your own servicing' model for the forseeable future. But that doesn't mean people can't take the 'let the LBS work on the bike, and have a recovery service*'


* might be a mobile phone and a taxi service

[iandriver]

.Drilling holes in walls? Well common sense I think should prevail.

Having lived in a few houses over fifty years old over the years, and seen the DIY attempts from some of the previous occupants, my faith in common sense is pretty low.

[JohnW]

One of the benefits of cycling is that the mechanics are simple enough to be done by most people with a little care.........................

..................that was certainly true, and it's true of my bikes even now, but just have a look at the latest offerings.................honestly, it's not as easy as you might think Bob - they're no longer designed for ease of maintenance..............

[Tangled Metal]

So far I can honestly say that other than a few punctures my only roadside mechanical was a disc brake pad that ripped off the backing. I could have continued but I didn't want to with just front brake. I was halfway home so a 10 minute wait for my partner to pick me up.

My partner broke her chain mid tour. Without quick links we got a lift for her to the ferry then I joined her.

I don't think I've had another mechanical that stopped me. However I do give it a quick check over occasionally but mostly just listen to the sound of the bike. Generally I've become sensitive to problems developing based on changes to the sound. I then take it in for a check over and replacement of failing part.

Put simply bike maintenance isn't that different to car maintenance in that you keep it serviced out shouldn't really fail drastically on a ride. That's been my experience at least.

Also the choice to do the work yourself or take it into a bike shop really is a matter of personal choice and preferences. If you don't like bike maintenance why do it if you can afford to pay for it to be done for you?

[[XAP]Bob]

One of the benefits of cycling is that the mechanics are simple enough to be done by most people with a little care.........................

..................that was certainly true, and it's true of my bikes even now, but just have a look at the latest offerings.................honestly, it's not as easy as you might think Bob - they're no longer designed for ease of maintenance..............

I imagine electronic shifting is bodgeable (even if that means jamming it one gear)
What else isn’t easily serviceable nowadays?

[JohnW]

One of the benefits of cycling is that the mechanics are simple enough to be done by most people with a little care.........................

..................that was certainly true, and it's true of my bikes even now, but just have a look at the latest offerings.................honestly, it's not as easy as you might think Bob - they're no longer designed for ease of maintenance..............

I imagine electronic shifting is bodgeable (even if that means jamming it one gear)
What else isn’t easily serviceable nowadays?

Serviceability is relevant in at several times and in several places. Routine servicing and getting out of schtuk if you have a problem on the road are two.

Try changing gear. My bikes have down-tube friction levers - compatible with just about every combination of rear/front changers and cassette up to 8-speed. If a cable breaks on my bike, I carry spares and simply put a new one in - getting the tension right as I do it, although cables stretch and it'll probably need adjusting after a couple of hundred miles.

I was out with a couple of friends a while ago, one of whom was on STI brake lever gear changing. His cable broke. Replacing the cable wasn't much of an issue, but setting up was beyond him - we had to 'freeze' the rear changer and he rode home with just three gears as offered by the front changer - he'd have had much more of a problem if he'd been riding a 'compact' chainset. He eventually took the bike into his LBS. The others of us couldn't help him on the road - we all rode friction down-tube levers.

Another friend had a slight mishap with something caught in his wheel, which brought him off. He caught his brake lever on a wall-stone and broke it. It was a Campag ergo (I think that's the correct term). The brake lever was specific to not only the manufacturer, but to the group-set he was riding. He was able to struggle home slowly with a front brake and changer both unuseable. When he went to his LBS to buy another brake lever, he was told that no-one can stock everything, and as his group-set was last years model the brake lever would have to be ordered (waiting period) and was only available as a pair for £100. As 'Tangled-Metal' has said above - it's all a matter of personal preference, but my preference is to be able to delve into my spares bucket for another brake lever and do my own repair immediately I get back home - it's true that I'd have to buy a pair of brake levers, but the most recent pair that I bought was a Shimano RX100, for about £20 - and it operates any on the different brakesets that I ride.

My frames are all hand-built quality steel - expensive compared with todays alu offerings, but the three that I'm currently riding were built in 1981, 1993 and 2005. The rear drop-outs are strong, steel, braised into the frame and will accept any wheel. I met a young bloke 0n the local Greenway a couple of weeks ago. He was walking and pushing a very swish looking modern road-bike - but alu frame. He'd caught the rear changer in some creepers at the side of the Greenway and rather than stopping to sort himself out, he'd put pressure on and tried to pedal out of it. He'd broken the dropout on the gear side - he'd broken it in two. The dropout was a separate aluminium casting (or maybe forging), which was bolted into the seat-stays at their conjoining. He couldn't help himself and I couldn't help him. I later learned from him that he'd 'phoned his wife to come out and get him home. Sadly he'd bought his bike on-line and up to now he'd not been able to obtain a replacement dropout, which was unique to the frame - not just to the brand, but to that particular model. Something similar happened to me when I was in a minor collision some years ago - the steel dropout was bent but not broken. I borrowed a long-handled adjustable wrench from a garage that was nearby, took the wheel out, bent the dropout back to being at least useable, and rode home. A local(ish) framebuilder straightened and realigned the dropout for me for a tenner - luckily the seat stays were unaffected.

Then there's internal cables - then there's electronic shifting and what happens when the battery is flat - then there's outboard bearing bottom brackets, only compatible with themselves, then there's minimal spoked wheels...............there is so much design and componentry which is more sophisticated and more complicated (and expensive) than my choice.

'Tangled-Metal' is right - each to their own - we make our choice. My choice is for simplicity, quality without spending silly money, ability to build up my own bikes from all the parts, ease and simplicity of repairing/servicing/replacing parts and my choice of bike is easier to service/repair than current offerings on the shelves. It doesn't look swish or flashy or impressive but it's my choice, and at between 7,000 and 10,000 miles a year they cover as much distance as most cyclists. We all make our choice, and I've a right to mine.

I have two friends who have LBSs, one has been operating his business for 35years+ and they both say that very few cyclists service/repair/maintain their own bikes nowadays. Good for the LBSs, I say.

[mercalia]

The trouble with letting a LBS do the work is you have to get the bike there ( not too hard if the bike is rideable, but what if it isnt? ) and then you have to get home. Nice if you drive a car that it also large enough to transport the bike but what if you dont have a car? ( like me )

[JohnW]

The trouble with letting a LBS do the work is you have to get the bike there ( not too hard if the bike is rideable, but what if it isnt? ) and then you have to get home. Nice if you drive a car that it also large enough to transport the bike but what if you don't have a car? ( like me )

All the more reason for bikes being simple and easy to repair/service/maintain, and for the 'older guys' to share their knowledge. In your position, if the bike was disabled, I'd buy the part that was kaput and fit it myself.

However, you make the point well - the current sophisticated/complicated/sooper-dooper-modern bikes are no help to the rider in your position. Just out of interest - what DO you actually do?

It's a strange situation wherein the only way a cyclist can deal with his bike is to drive it around in a car.